Healing the Gut through Mind-Body Work with Claire Bailey

[00:00:00] Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Heal with Grace podcast.
[00:00:03] Y'all, our episode today is going to be very, very helpful to you if you've ever experienced any
[00:00:09] kind of gut issues, digestive issues, IBS, anything along those lines that I know,
[00:00:15] honestly, most of you do, probably, but just not talked about enough in this world.
[00:00:20] And so I'm really excited to have this guest on here. Claire is a therapist that I connected
[00:00:24] with here in the Colorado area, and she just speaks volume to her own personal journey
[00:00:30] and her professional journey in this. So yeah, her name is Claire Bailey.
[00:00:34] She is a somatic psychotherapist and coach dedicated to helping clients heal from chronic pain,
[00:00:40] trauma, and disconnection from their authentic selves. Her core training is in trauma-informed
[00:00:45] somatic body psychotherapy, inviting awareness through felt sensation, breath, and expressive
[00:00:50] movement. Her integrative practice weaves together relational psychodynamic and social
[00:00:55] equity perspectives with an emphasis on serving the LGBTQ plus community and fostering self-compassion.
[00:01:02] She is a recovered chronic pain patient herself and utilizes pain reprocessing therapy,
[00:01:07] integrative somatic parts work, similar to IFS, focusing just salt and range of other
[00:01:13] evidence-based modalities to foster deep blasting change without further ado, settle in
[00:01:18] and get cozy, and listen to the episode. Hey there, and welcome to Heal with Grace.
[00:01:25] I'm your host, Grace Secker, and I'm a holistic licensed therapist and nervous system coach who
[00:01:30] believes that the chronic and often unseen symptoms you're living with are a sign of
[00:01:34] something deeper going on. A sign that your nervous system needs attention.
[00:01:39] In each episode, I'll share the science behind the most common chronic health disorders
[00:01:43] plus holistic health tips using mental, physical, and spiritual practices.
[00:01:48] You'll hear what I've learned in my journey and the true stories from our trusted guests
[00:01:52] so you can feel less alone in your experience and give yourself grace no matter what you're going
[00:01:57] through. So without further ado, settle in and get cozy. It's time to Heal with Grace.
[00:02:04] Hi Claire, thank you so much for coming on the Heal with Grace podcast. I'm really excited
[00:02:08] for this conversation. Hi Grace, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, so let's go ahead
[00:02:12] and just start jumping in and share with us a little bit about who you are
[00:02:17] and how you came to this mind body work. Sure. So my name is Claire Bailey and I'm a
[00:02:22] somatic psychotherapist and coach. I'm based in Colorado and my professional focus and dedication
[00:02:30] to really addressing chronic pain and other physical symptoms and trauma is really deeply
[00:02:36] informed by my own experience of navigating neuroplastic symptoms. And I've been in the
[00:02:42] neuroplastic space for about eight years now. So first as a client or patient and now as a
[00:02:49] clinician. And before that, I spent about 10 years suffering with neuroplastic symptoms.
[00:02:56] And for me, those really manifested in the form of debilitating gut issues. I also experienced
[00:03:04] recurrent tension headaches and some fibromyalgia type body pain as well at certain points in my
[00:03:09] journey. But it was really the digestive, the gut symptoms and the chronic abdominal pain that
[00:03:16] were the most predominant symptoms for me. And before I kind of go further into all of that,
[00:03:22] I really want to be clear about why I want to share my story. And it's because my graduate
[00:03:28] research really showed the transformative role that recovery stories can have in fostering healing
[00:03:34] when it comes to people who are recovering and trying to recover from these neuroplastic
[00:03:39] symptoms. And there can be a real paradigm shift that's required both as a client and also as a
[00:03:45] provider to understand the brain's role in creating real physical symptoms in the body.
[00:03:53] And so along with the neurophysiologic education, these recovery stories are just such a powerful
[00:04:00] mechanism for giving patients hope and helping them really build the confidence to know that
[00:04:05] they can achieve these neuroplastic changes that are habitually around habitually reinforced
[00:04:12] physiologic responses to stress and that they can transition out of these old neuro pathways.
[00:04:17] So I'm really excited to share my story with you and your listeners today because I want people
[00:04:24] out there who are suffering to know that healing is possible and that they can get better.
[00:04:29] Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. And that's a huge reason why I'm having more and more people
[00:04:34] come on the podcast to share their story to foster hope and help people understand not
[00:04:39] only just that healing in this way is possible, but also different types of symptoms,
[00:04:43] right? I haven't had someone come on and talk about the debilitating state that your gut issues
[00:04:49] can have and got pain and all the things that come with it. So I think this is a really important
[00:04:54] piece of it specifically your symptoms too. So thanks for sharing. Absolutely. I was just
[00:05:00] going to name that gut symptoms are a very prevalent form of neuroplastic symptoms. Our
[00:05:05] guts are very sensitive to the environment to stress and I just wanted to name that too.
[00:05:10] Yeah, exactly. So can you describe to us before you came to this work what did that journey look
[00:05:17] like for you? Were you diagnosed with anything like what kind of treatments did you try like
[00:05:21] what kind of roads did you go down so we can get an idea? Yeah, so for me my symptoms came on
[00:05:27] rather gradually for some people like there can be more of an acute onset but for me
[00:05:32] there were kind of whispers of symptoms throughout my teens and into my early 20s it was probably
[00:05:38] around age 20 or 21 when my quality of life really started to be impacted in a big way and
[00:05:44] well every person experiencing neuroplastic symptoms has a different journey and has a unique
[00:05:50] constellation of factors that really influence these symptoms to develop. My experience around
[00:05:57] their development really shares certain similarities with many of the people that I work with and
[00:06:02] one example is that there can be often like a pressure that we put on ourselves or an intensity
[00:06:07] that we approach life with and so that was really the case for me and led to just this combination of
[00:06:14] external stress, internal stress that ultimately manifested in my relationship to food and then
[00:06:20] consequently affected the function of my entire nervous system so that's involved in GI function,
[00:06:28] it's involved in the processing of our visceral sensations and so my journey really highlights
[00:06:34] this professional realization that it's often when our nervous systems are overloaded with these
[00:06:39] external and internal pressures that we experience the onset of neuroplastic symptoms and so many
[00:06:46] things can contribute to that. We need to look at trauma, we need to look at habits of personality,
[00:06:51] we need to look at repressed emotions, conditioned responses after an injury,
[00:06:56] societal oppression like all of these factors are really important as clinicians for us to
[00:07:01] assess because everyone can have different contributing factors and it's important to
[00:07:06] figure out which are the most prevalent for any given client but for me those were some of the
[00:07:12] factors that were the intensity, the pressure and also this piece around a conditioned response
[00:07:19] which I'd love to talk a little bit more about as we get into things but we're really the
[00:07:22] primary drivers for me so as far as all the things that I tried like many clients struggling
[00:07:29] with digestive stuff I went down a path of restrictive diets, endless testing, allopathic
[00:07:35] medicine or western medicine and also alternative medicine and so I tried every dietary intervention
[00:07:44] imaginable, did food allergy testing with multiple elimination diets, I tried at least 15
[00:07:50] different medications, I did acupuncture, did neurofeedback, saw multiple gastroenterologists,
[00:07:56] I saw a naturopath for a couple years, I worked with various supplements, I did psychedelic therapy,
[00:08:02] daily ice baths for six months, craniosacral work, hypnotherapy, even engaged in some psychotherapy
[00:08:08] approaches as well including some somatic therapy which was getting closer to what was needed but
[00:08:14] was still missing some key pieces and I also think it might be helpful to name that I had
[00:08:18] a dedicated yoga practice during this time and so I was really well versed and practiced in
[00:08:24] several approaches to nervous system regulation and I've done a lot of work to also access my
[00:08:30] deeper emotions and so I say that because those latter two things especially the nervous system
[00:08:36] piece and then the emotional work can be really crucial components of what leads to healing for
[00:08:42] folks navigating these types of mind-body symptoms but for me none of these approaches
[00:08:47] while I acknowledge maybe those in particular may have played an important role or laid a
[00:08:52] certain foundation for my later recovery they didn't do anything at least on their own to shift
[00:08:58] the symptomology that I was dealing with that didn't come until later so how about to say well
[00:09:04] there was there was great effort and a lot of compassion in many of those approaches that I
[00:09:09] tried they they didn't ultimately lead to lasting change and this again is where where my
[00:09:15] professional expertise and research really intersects with my personal lived experience
[00:09:21] and that my master's thesis showed that in my clinical practice as well both really highlight
[00:09:26] the lack of significant lasting improvement with psychotherapy and other treatments in the
[00:09:32] absence of a neuroplastic pain framework so without that underlying education the the brain
[00:09:38] body connection just isn't often addressed in the specific ways that need to happen to create
[00:09:43] healing so if you believe for example that as I did that there's something irrevocably damaged
[00:09:50] going on with the nervous system for example a message that was really reinforced by
[00:09:56] medical providers that I saw then you may be inadvertently reinforcing that that fear symptom
[00:10:03] pathway so we really have to learn how to deal with fear in a way that also is grounded in
[00:10:10] accurate understanding I really appreciate the piece that you shared around I was well versed in
[00:10:14] all of these practices yoga probably eastern western psychotherapy probably already
[00:10:21] going down that road I'm not sure exactly where you were but down that road to become professional
[00:10:25] in psychotherapy and still those weren't necessarily the pieces that you need yes
[00:10:31] they're all great and wonderful but it is missing this understanding of the mind body
[00:10:35] connection with neuroplastic pain so can you give examples of maybe what you were told by
[00:10:41] practitioners that oh your digestive issues are probably caused by dysregulated nervous system
[00:10:46] like what actually were you hearing I think it's helpful for people to resonate with that
[00:10:50] yeah that's a really good question so it was vague I was given descriptive based diagnoses
[00:10:56] right diagnoses of exclusion so irritable irritable bowel syndrome or IBS conically
[00:11:01] mediated abdominal pain syndrome these syndromes not actually identifying a cause a true cause
[00:11:08] they're just kind of describing the symptomology and so there was an understanding I did find
[00:11:13] among both allopathic and alternative medical providers that that there was a stress connection
[00:11:20] there was some element of that involved but it was very oversimplistic in the way that it was
[00:11:26] kind of understood and explained to me and it kind of was just like we'll just manage your
[00:11:30] stress was kind of the messaging that I got and I was also told by more than one one
[00:11:36] physician that this is lifelong you're gonna just have to live with this for the rest of your
[00:11:41] life and you're just gonna have to learn how to manage it there's no cure and I just couldn't
[00:11:46] accept that answer I wholeheartedly could not could not accept that answer which was a big
[00:11:51] part of what kept me persisting and and searching for a solution and I think part of that was
[00:11:57] the fact that I wasn't really given a structural diagnosis my symptoms were functional my tests
[00:12:04] were normal and that's not to say that people who do have a physical or structural
[00:12:09] issue going on can't also benefit from the a lot of what PRT can offer but for me that was
[00:12:15] it's really part of what kept me digging and searching for more answers and didn't take
[00:12:19] what I was told at face value yeah thank you for explaining that even just the the language
[00:12:24] of yeah their IBS or other things that I was given because people can resonate with those
[00:12:28] pieces so after this long journey of searching and searching and not accepting that this was
[00:12:34] going to be your life what was the turning point to then come to this mind body world
[00:12:42] and healing in a different way yeah so the true turning point for me was really this conceptual
[00:12:48] shift of an absolute validation of really what I had intuitively felt all along was that my
[00:12:54] symptoms were primarily driven by a conditioned response in the nervous system and for years I
[00:13:00] had felt that this was the case but the practitioners that I had seen just didn't really understand
[00:13:06] that concept as at least an application to my situation and so that left me feeling really
[00:13:11] lost and pulled in a lot of different directions and even though I kind of had this hunch I
[00:13:17] really desperately needed the support and the guidance and more than anything the confidence
[00:13:23] to figure out how to decondition that response so over the years I'd experimented with doing things
[00:13:30] like relaxation exercises or even taking an SSRI for periods of time when the symptoms would
[00:13:37] come on or I'd have players so I was on the right track with those things but it wasn't
[00:13:42] until this idea was really strongly validated and spelled out for me by the PRT approach the
[00:13:48] pain reprocessing therapy approached by a physician who was fluent in this in this framework that the
[00:13:54] turning point came so it really gave me this actionable plan that I needed and the confidence
[00:14:00] to know that I was finally heading in the right direction and that realization was so powerful
[00:14:06] because it really became the foundation of my entire professional career this need for specific
[00:14:14] tailored direction really aligns with that critical finding from my research that of the
[00:14:19] importance of education that's tailored to neuroplastic symptoms and that actually emerged
[00:14:25] as a critical predictor of recovery that was even more important in my in my research at least
[00:14:31] then therapeutic rapport alone which we know as psychotherapists is incredibly important already
[00:14:36] so you're saying that the piece around education with PRT with pain reprocessing therapy
[00:14:42] because we do we place a lot of emphasis on helping you understand what's actually going on
[00:14:47] that there is this mind and body connection and it's not just physically based so you're
[00:14:51] saying that that education piece is a main factor in helping people recover yes exactly yes that
[00:14:58] that pain education piece and also yeah then recovery stories really helping people to foster
[00:15:04] this confidence and this belief that this can work and of course we have to balance that
[00:15:08] with being outcome independent right but our clients need to understand that this is possible
[00:15:13] and have that belief that is grounded in neuroscience in reality yeah exactly I love that you found
[00:15:20] this work through a position that's not as common and I think it's getting more common maybe
[00:15:24] but that's great that there was actually a physician that suggested this to you yeah I mean
[00:15:29] that really is incredibly rare I think still nowadays for folks to be guided in this direction
[00:15:36] by a physician especially and so I'm so I'm so grateful for that and I think it also
[00:15:42] highlights a profound social injustice that's occurring in health care today just how rare
[00:15:47] that is you know one one injustice of many but even with that access that I had it still took me
[00:15:53] 10 years to find appropriate treatment to connect with a physician who could actually
[00:15:58] point me in the right direction and direct me to those resources so that's another reason I
[00:16:02] feel so passionately about disseminating this information and I so appreciate the work that
[00:16:08] you are doing and with this podcast to get the word out about neuroplastic symptoms and treatment
[00:16:14] because there are just so many people out there in desperate need of effective treatment
[00:16:19] and they're being profoundly failed by the medical system and in many cases by the
[00:16:24] the mental health system and behavioral health system as well so yeah I just really really
[00:16:29] think that this this education piece on a interpersonal level whether it's with a client
[00:16:35] or whether it's on a more public level is crucial yeah definitely we're growing our
[00:16:40] community is growing to sharing this information and getting it out there but it's still small
[00:16:44] and you know we're working hard at it but it's a great community to be a part of I mean we
[00:16:49] we're at the conference together and that feeling of just everyone working on this project
[00:16:53] together to this movement right this movement to change the name of pain and symptoms and
[00:16:58] how they're treated is cool to be a part of yeah yeah it's it's really cool to be a part of
[00:17:03] and it's also so exciting to see like at the conference how much research is coming out
[00:17:08] and in progress it's really validating these approaches and my hope is that really helped
[00:17:12] to bolster this movement to inform more and more providers and and patients yeah so you
[00:17:20] you might have mentioned a little bit of this already but when you finally came to
[00:17:24] this approach to PRT what made it different for you what was that click for you that's a really
[00:17:29] good question I mean I think that one of the crucial pieces that PRT lays out is that these
[00:17:36] physical symptoms that you're experiencing can be generated by neural pathways physical
[00:17:42] neural pathways in the brain rather than a structural issue in the body and that paired
[00:17:49] with the understanding that these pathways can be changed over time they are neuroplastics so to
[00:17:54] speak right and then pairing that as well with an approach of here are the steps to get from A to B
[00:18:00] having all of that kind of package together was really helpful for me and I think one other
[00:18:05] piece that feels relevant to name here is that is the part of around you know when you're
[00:18:09] experiencing unrelenting physical pain or discomfort there are profound impacts on
[00:18:16] executive functioning and so there were months you know even though I had this hunch like I alluded
[00:18:21] or talked about earlier about this being a conditioned response there were months where I
[00:18:26] couldn't concentrate long enough to read even a page of a book or sometimes even a paragraph
[00:18:31] and so it was really important to be met with support guidance and like a structured
[00:18:38] approach that could really help guide me towards exactly the things that I needed to be doing
[00:18:43] and also reinforce the belief in the understanding that like yes I am on the right track and help me
[00:18:48] to to persist with that instead of before being met with that that approach and in this framework
[00:18:54] I'm sure many of your listeners can relate like there's this supplement this this diet that this
[00:19:00] regulation tool here and I found myself being pulled in so many different directions so it
[00:19:05] really helped me hone in and focus on the most important pieces that would lead me to recovery
[00:19:11] yeah yeah hey friends it's grace if you feel like you've been doing all of the treatment protocols
[00:19:17] and all the different modalities to heal and you're still not feeling better and it's just
[00:19:21] kind of managing things I'm here to talk to you for a second so it's not because you're doing
[00:19:27] it wrong or you just haven't found the answer yet it's truly because your nervous system and
[00:19:31] brain are still operating in protection mode and your nervous system and brain when it perceives
[00:19:37] danger physical or emotional danger and even just ongoing stress it keeps your body on high alert so
[00:19:44] none of those treatment modalities are actually going to stick or work until you work with the
[00:19:49] bottom line which is your brain and nervous system because when you're in the danger mode state your
[00:19:54] digestion immune system hormones and pain signals all get affected it's like trying to heal
[00:20:00] while the alarm bells are still ringing in the background and that is why so many people get
[00:20:05] stuck you can do all of the treatment things you want but if your system isn't regulated your body
[00:20:11] can't access its natural healing state this is exactly why I created my four month signature
[00:20:18] program the mind body healing method it's a step by step process that helps you calm your system
[00:20:23] rewire old stress patterns and retrain your brain to feel safe again so you can finally
[00:20:28] start to heal for good chronic pain and illness this is a true recovery program not just
[00:20:33] management you'll get guided lessons nervous system practices live support individual and
[00:20:39] group support and a community that actually understands what you're going through enrollment
[00:20:44] is now open so you can find the link below in the show notes or go to elevatetherapywellness.com
[00:20:51] slash mind body healing method because until your brain and body feel safe no protocol or
[00:20:57] treatment plan will actually work when your nervous system works everything starts to heal
[00:21:04] you're right there's a framework right if you will and we can kind of ebb and flow in that obviously
[00:21:09] everyone is a little different and how they move and what's important to them but it's different
[00:21:14] than many other psychotherapy models because we're pretty direct of like hey this is happening
[00:21:18] so let's teach you what's going on and here are some skills to help you get out of it
[00:21:22] essentially or or learn how to to really decrease or get rid of your symptoms yeah yeah
[00:21:26] and I think to your point that directness can provide a lot of safety for folks particularly
[00:21:32] who are in a lot of distress right because there's there's not the sense that you're spinning your
[00:21:36] wheels or as much as some other psychotherapeutic approaches can I think sometimes feel for people
[00:21:43] who are really in acute distress or have chronic symptoms like this so yeah that that
[00:21:48] piece feels important as well and I think to also connect PRT there are many other
[00:21:53] approaches in psychotherapy can be really helpful and it's very individual you know when
[00:21:59] which might be more appropriate but something that I really see is a thread that connects PRT
[00:22:04] to other somatic modalities and other psychotherapeutic modalities that I think can help practitioners
[00:22:10] tile this together as this basis around safety to again I think that directness that PRT offers
[00:22:16] can really support with a lot of clients it's built around this idea of like okay how do we
[00:22:22] actually pair this stimulus that is triggering these orthogeologic responses in your mind
[00:22:27] body system how do we pair that with responses based on safety rather than fear activation which
[00:22:33] is usually what is driving those symptoms yeah I like that you're able to see how I mean it is a
[00:22:39] core component right when there is so much fear driving stress in the body driving nervous system
[00:22:44] stress brain danger right sending signals to the body so much of the core especially in the
[00:22:49] beginning of this work and coming to it is safety to help figure out how to create and
[00:22:54] provide that safety for the mind and for the body so then we can help work with some maybe
[00:22:59] a more laid-emotional distress or whatever comes from that whatever the person needs right yeah
[00:23:04] yeah so yeah thanks for naming that yeah and I would imagine that you know again the recovery
[00:23:09] stories and the education are a big piece of what can provide that safety for a lot of people
[00:23:14] definitely yeah yeah were there any key moments or shifts that stood out to you along the way
[00:23:20] I think again this encounter with this this physician who told me hey this is actually 100
[00:23:27] percent curable and here is a framework that completely validates and matches up with this
[00:23:32] intuition that you've had all along that was a critical moment for me in a shift and it again
[00:23:37] gave me this hope and belief obviously when we deal with with these chronic symptoms there
[00:23:42] can be a protective part of us that doesn't want to believe that something could work
[00:23:45] that was certainly alive for me in that moment because of yeah the the great disappointment
[00:23:50] we've gone through oftentimes over and over of seeking and trying a new thing and it not panning
[00:23:55] out but that moment really it unlocked something in me it gave me a hope that okay well maybe
[00:24:01] there is a possibility it's at least worth a try and then it allowed me to really
[00:24:05] commit myself to working those principles yeah in a focused way that makes a lot of
[00:24:10] sense actually it's somewhat similar to my journey one of the key moments for me in the
[00:24:14] beginning was when I had actually a naturopath send me to a psychologist he was like I think
[00:24:20] you need to go see this psychologist who essentially does PRT it wasn't called PRT
[00:24:23] at the time but and I mean I didn't grasp it I was like yeah sure I'll go do that and it was
[00:24:29] PRT approach that I was like okay yeah so if we can get the name out and get this information
[00:24:35] out to more physicians more people that people and symptoms end up seeing right they're not
[00:24:39] going to first go to a psychologist or a therapist they're going to go to a physician of
[00:24:43] course of course you are yeah so yeah I think that's such an important piece of this work
[00:24:48] yeah I completely agree yeah absolutely you mentioned a little bit earlier about medication
[00:24:54] and I know you said you share or you have a opinion on you know how medication fits into
[00:25:00] this journey can you speak a little bit to that yeah absolutely so I feel in sharing my own
[00:25:05] recovery story that it's important to mention that I I started to experience improvement after
[00:25:11] starting an SNRI and while I don't attribute all of my progress to that we have really good evidence
[00:25:17] now that these medications when used in conjunction with PRT and similar therapies can really help to
[00:25:26] blunt or help reduce those signals from the amygdala that drives the sympathetic nervous
[00:25:31] system to respond in this way that's creating and sustaining physical symptoms and so these medications
[00:25:37] can really help just bolster and support the development of those non fear driven pathways
[00:25:43] and really help reinforce the PRT and that learning process and that was something that
[00:25:49] was a part of my journey and so I feel that it's important to be transparent about that
[00:25:53] that these things can work synergistically and it's not to say that every every patient
[00:25:58] or every client needs to be on medication necessarily I've seen many clients recover
[00:26:02] without the support of medication but just naming that it is something that is potentially
[00:26:08] something that folks might want to look into depending on the advice of their
[00:26:12] providers that they're working with and the specific international guidelines around the
[00:26:17] SNRIs come in the medication treatment specifically for functional abdominal problems come out of
[00:26:24] Dr. Drosman, Doug Drosman's work in the Rome Foundation so that's a great resource if folks
[00:26:29] are struggling with these symptoms and interested in learning a little bit more about the current
[00:26:35] recommendations yeah so I think that's that just feels like an important piece to name and
[00:26:40] something I don't hear talked about a lot and as far as like that kind of leads me to think
[00:26:45] about the way in which you know some people we're all different right we all need a different
[00:26:50] combination of approaches and in some cases people can have resolution of their neuroplastic
[00:26:55] symptoms after reading a book right we've all heard those those miraculous stories or I've
[00:27:01] worked with a client that had resolution of their symptoms after two sessions and I just
[00:27:06] think it's really important to name that at least for me and for a lot of other people
[00:27:12] navigating these symptoms can take a lot longer it can be a slower process because
[00:27:16] these neural pathways can be really ingrained and sometimes medication can be a support in that
[00:27:22] process as well so yeah that I'll just I think that that feels about what I wanted to to share
[00:27:28] on that point yeah I really appreciate that I agree it's not talked about enough I share on
[00:27:32] here a lot where I share about supports I like to call them supports right medications any
[00:27:38] treatments that feel supportive and helpful to help the body feel safe reduce that danger
[00:27:43] reduce that anxiety and fear they can be great it's different when we're relying on them to fix
[00:27:49] everything absolutely a lot of pressure and I mean we know that doesn't work right yes absolutely I
[00:27:55] love that you're saying that because absolutely I do not want people to take away from this
[00:27:58] conversation that you must be on medication to heal and this is this is your answer now it's
[00:28:04] just another tool to help support those those pathways of safety exactly and I get questions
[00:28:10] all the time around people that are learning about this work they're like oh but I'm taking
[00:28:14] this medication I'm doing this like do I keep doing them like yes we don't actually want to take
[00:28:18] them away you know overnight because that could actually be more harmful more stressful to your
[00:28:22] system to your body to whatever you're doing though yeah I just appreciate you saying that in
[00:28:26] that approach yeah okay so how has your relationship with your body or symptoms changed and yeah how
[00:28:32] does it look like now yeah I mean I I guess thinking back to 10 years ago when comparing
[00:28:38] that with today 10 years ago my life really revolved around searching for answers trying to
[00:28:45] manage my symptoms the best that I could so that I could function to the degree I could
[00:28:50] function which was really limited at times so I would say yeah I mean my whole consciousness
[00:28:55] and my whole experience of life was really colored by the physical discomfort that I was in
[00:29:01] and yeah it just it took up all of my brain space so to speak and now I would say this work is still
[00:29:08] a big part of my focus because I'm passionate about supporting clients in this way but it's
[00:29:13] really not something that I have to actively think about anymore there was a long period of time
[00:29:19] in those years in between where I was recovering where I was still really actively
[00:29:24] working the principles in a conscious way and now I feel that I've gotten to this
[00:29:29] place where my my body system has really internalized this deconditioning so to speak of these reactions
[00:29:36] that were occurring before so yeah if I go through something incredibly stressful I might
[00:29:41] feel a twinge or might have a symptom start to come on every once in a blue moon but now I know
[00:29:47] how to respond to it and take care of myself and it's not something that I consider to be chronic
[00:29:52] in any way we all have sensations our bodies all speak to us and they provide valuable
[00:29:57] information for us about our needs about our emotions about how safe we're feeling in the world
[00:30:04] and that still gets to be information that I can pay attention to but it no longer has to
[00:30:09] show up in the form of pain or my body doesn't have to scream at me anymore because I've now
[00:30:15] built this relationship where I feel more tuned to what's what's happening internally
[00:30:20] and that's something that took a really long time to develop so I I want to also just
[00:30:24] name that that process then general it needs to be gradual right it might be similar to how
[00:30:30] you're saying about going off the medication too quickly it can be really overwhelming to start
[00:30:35] feeling our sensations paying attention to our bodies all at once so it definitely was a gradual
[00:30:40] process but it's led me to a place where I have a much more direct connection to my internal
[00:30:46] landscape in a way that allows me to live more authentically and be free of chronic symptoms
[00:30:53] yeah that's beautiful and now you professionally do this work right and I professionally do this
[00:30:58] work yes yeah yeah okay so what would you say to someone who's where you once were maybe though
[00:31:05] 10 years ago yeah that's a great question too I I would say you can heal from this you can
[00:31:11] get better you know and I think obviously this has to be tailored individually and
[00:31:15] but assuming someone has received a neuroplastic diagnosis they've ruled out structural
[00:31:20] conditions and I would I would be very very direct in saying like this is changeable right
[00:31:26] might take time but these neural pathways can be changed and you can be free of chronic pain
[00:31:32] that messaging was incredibly important for me and also emerged as something that was
[00:31:36] really important in the research that I did for many other clients so that's one thing that I
[00:31:41] would say and again even if there is a structural issue going on there's still a very good chance
[00:31:48] these same principles these same therapies can offer a significant amount of relief because whenever
[00:31:54] we're experiencing chronic symptoms our brain is primed to interpret that through a lens of threat
[00:31:59] and through that process it will begin to amplify often the experience of the symptom whether it's
[00:32:06] increasing pain levels or increasing our emotional distress usually both and so that can be adding
[00:32:12] another layer of suffering and symptom activation or exacerbation on top of whatever that condition
[00:32:19] that maybe structural would cause just on its own and we can at least work with that layer of
[00:32:25] things so I think just being really explicit about you know there is research that these
[00:32:30] modalities can help and this is not something that you necessarily will have to live with
[00:32:35] forever and of course we can't predict the future we can't know exactly what will
[00:32:38] happen with every client's journey and their involvement in the process is Mizuki is a key
[00:32:44] piece of how that unfolds as well right it's a partnership to do this work with the clinician
[00:32:50] but yeah there is possibility there is strong possibility of recovery yeah that directness
[00:32:56] is actually something I've worked on even on a professional level of being because it's helpful
[00:33:00] for people to hear that right and it's true I truly believe that but I think in the beginning
[00:33:05] I was a little hesitant I didn't want to overpromise something you know and be wrong about it necessarily
[00:33:11] as my own insecurities early on but I found that yeah that directness is very important people
[00:33:16] respond to it they'll be like okay all right let me engage in this and try yeah absolutely and
[00:33:22] and you do have to be careful right as a clinician you need to know that you've gone
[00:33:25] through the assessments and and you can feel confident and and what you're what you're
[00:33:29] offering yeah exactly yeah is there anything else that we have not talked about that you feel is
[00:33:36] important to share that doesn't have to be I just like to ask yeah there are two things that come to
[00:33:41] mind when it comes to gut health people can have a lot of misconceptions and we can be
[00:33:47] again led astray by a lot of different theories right when we're working with something like
[00:33:51] IBS or a functional domino condition and so one thing I just want to say is around food
[00:33:59] we know foods we eat can impact health and even our nervous system right through processes like
[00:34:04] increasing inflammation so it's not to say that foods are unimportant necessarily but for me and
[00:34:12] for so many patients out there struggling with gut issues like IBS and similar conditions it's not
[00:34:18] the root cause and so actually focusing too much on avoiding certain foods can actually reinforce
[00:34:25] this perception that those foods are harmful and when it's actually an often unconscious association
[00:34:32] that is causing the symptoms paradoxically what's actually needed in those cases is a gradual
[00:34:38] reinterpretation of those foods as non-dangerous so it's not as simple as saying like just
[00:34:44] eat the cake or whatever this is happening on a very very unconscious implicit level but it can
[00:34:49] require a really gentle and graded approach of reintroducing those foods in a genuinely non-threatening
[00:34:56] way and sometimes you know that can come after doing some other foundational work and learning
[00:35:02] to resource safety in the body through other methods and then the second the second thing
[00:35:07] I'll say is that once the gut in particular is dysregulated and I'll preface this by saying
[00:35:13] this might be a little bit of speculation but I would imagine that dysregulation of peristalsis
[00:35:19] or the the rhythmic contraction of the intestine could potentially lead to a host of downstream
[00:35:26] effects impacting the microbiome for example so there's still a lot that we're learning about
[00:35:31] that but here's the thing when people focus primarily on those downstream effects instead
[00:35:37] of the root cause when that cause is based in a neurophysiologic process they often get
[00:35:42] stuck and so I found for myself and also their clients that I've worked with making that shift
[00:35:48] of focus is really really pivotal and their ability to unlock deeper levels of recovery and that often
[00:35:55] whatever whatever might or might not be happening downstream tends to resolve on its own when we
[00:36:01] we focus on that root cause thank you thank you thank you for saying both of those things
[00:36:05] very very important I said well both but first the food piece I mean if you listen to any of
[00:36:11] these podcast episodes you know that is a hill that I will die on the food is not the root cause
[00:36:16] and we've got to rewire that appreciate you your messaging around that and then yeah definitely
[00:36:21] that like there's a lot out there about the gut gut health and what affects negative gut health
[00:36:27] and and and all there's just so so so much messaging right there's so much out there
[00:36:31] but they're not discussing the root cause what you just discussed they're talking about the
[00:36:35] downstream effects right and so a lot of people think well that is the root cause the downstream
[00:36:40] effects those more functionally based diagnoses are functionally based reasons right but yeah
[00:36:46] no there's there's a different layer there so appreciate you sharing that amazing appreciate
[00:36:50] you as well yeah and all the work that you're doing around this this is a beautiful conversation
[00:36:55] I know is going to be very very helpful for people okay so where can people find you we'll
[00:37:00] obviously link everything below but share with us where you're working what you're doing
[00:37:04] sure so people can find me at bodyfullcounseling.com if they're in call I'm based in Colorado offering
[00:37:11] somatic psychotherapy virtually across the state and doing some walk and talk sessions
[00:37:16] in Denver when it's not too cold so they can find me there or if you're not in Colorado
[00:37:21] and you're interested in my coaching work you can find me at bodyfullcoaching.com
[00:37:25] people can also find me on instagram I just started a new page at body full counseling
[00:37:31] so those are some yeah ways to reach out to me and find me in my work amazing thank you so much
[00:37:37] Claire I really appreciate you having you on thank you so much too Grace all right we will see you next
[00:37:41] week if this podcast means something to you it would mean so much to me if you could do these
[00:37:46] couple things one go to the heal with grace show page wherever you listen and tap the plus
[00:37:52] sign or click on the follow button so you don't miss an episode it helps both of us out
[00:37:57] while you're there if you could give a five star review so that this podcast can reach
[00:38:01] more people it would mean so much to me so I can continue sharing episodes that help you
[00:38:07] as well as others thanks for listening and I hope this brings you hope on your journey