Sensory Processing and Chronic Illness with Dr. Satya Sardonicus

[00:00:00] Hello all. Welcome back to the Heal With Grace podcast. Today we have Dr. Satya. She is a leading
[00:00:08] expert in the neurobiology of stress and the innovator behind the neurofacial flow method,
[00:00:13] a non-invasive approach to healing chronic conditions by addressing nervous system dysregulation.
[00:00:18] With a social media reach across platforms of 60k plus engaged followers, Dr. Satya empowers
[00:00:24] individuals to reclaim their health through practical somatic practices that enhances
[00:00:29] brain-body connection and overall quality of life. Drawing from her own journey of recovery
[00:00:34] and professional expertise, she bridges cutting edge neuroscience with holistic healing,
[00:00:39] guiding others on their path to wellness. Dr. Satya's insights are both scientific
[00:00:44] and experiential, making her a relatable and impactful guest. Dr. Satya has a wealth of
[00:00:50] knowledge and she even took me through a couple practices that were really helpful actually for
[00:00:56] myself and I think for all of you. So you can totally listen to this, but we're also on YouTube
[00:01:02] now. So if you want to see us talk with each other and her share the practices, go follow on
[00:01:06] YouTube at Heal With Grace because we're going to start doing a little more experiential, right?
[00:01:11] Like we can talk. I can talk to you and educate you about all of this, which is,
[00:01:15] I mean, what I absolutely love to do. And we very much so know that it's the experience
[00:01:22] and the feeling and the doing of some of this stuff that actually helps change our new neural
[00:01:28] pathways. That's the whole point of we're doing. We're changing neural pathways. We're changing our
[00:01:32] brain. We're changing our body. We're providing safety in the body and we can't do that by just
[00:01:37] talking. So we need to be able to experience. So I loved this episode and how she brought that
[00:01:42] to life. So without further ado, go ahead and listen and I'm excited for you to have this episode.
[00:01:49] Hey there and welcome to Heal With Grace. I'm your host, Grace Secker, and I'm a holistic
[00:01:54] licensed therapist and nervous system coach who believes that the chronic and often unseen symptoms
[00:01:59] you're living with are a sign of something deeper going on. A sign that your nervous system needs
[00:02:04] attention. In each episode, I'll share the science behind the most common chronic health
[00:02:09] disorders plus holistic health tips using mental, physical, and spiritual practices.
[00:02:14] You'll hear what I've learned in my journey and the true stories from our trusted guests
[00:02:18] so you can feel less alone in your experience and give yourself grace no matter what you're going
[00:02:23] through. So without further ado, settle in and get cozy. It's time to heal with Grace.
[00:02:29] Hello, Dr. Satya. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I can already tell this is going
[00:02:35] to be a really juicy episode, so I really appreciate your time. Yeah, thanks so much
[00:02:39] for having me, Grace. I'm really excited for this conversation. Yeah, why don't we just start by
[00:02:44] telling people about like who you are, how you came to this work, and a general idea of what you do.
[00:02:50] Yeah, I am Dr. Satya Sarvalakis. I often just go by Dr. Satya, and I have a background in
[00:02:57] chiropractic psychoneuroimmunology, which is just like why you get sick when you're stressed,
[00:03:01] and also dance and yoga. I come from a family full of holistic care providers,
[00:03:06] so this was just like what I was immersed in growing up. And I have come to a place through my own
[00:03:13] healing process and also my clinical work of creating what is now known as the neurofacial
[00:03:18] flow method. It's a trauma-informed approach to healing that really bridges the connection between
[00:03:23] fascia and the nervous system and long-term resilience. It's more than just like a single
[00:03:29] technique. It's actually more of a container or like a clinical operating system for how we
[00:03:35] facilitate change. And so it's a lot to do with how we facilitate change in ourselves,
[00:03:41] as well as how our roles as providers or caregivers, like how we can help other people
[00:03:46] heal and change and grow. But as I've alluded to, my work is deeply personalized. I spent
[00:03:52] years, decades even, navigating chronic illness and neurological symptoms that
[00:03:57] had no clear diagnosis. So when I finally learned that my condition was caused by
[00:04:03] my brain actually being herniated out of my skull, which we didn't realize happened in a car accident
[00:04:08] when I was seven years old, but we didn't discover that till I was 26. So I spent a lot of time with
[00:04:13] mysterious chronic illness that was progressive. And I was faced with two choices, either having
[00:04:18] invasive brain surgery or finding some other way because that was the only option presented to
[00:04:23] me. That's really what led into my development of this work. And it's focused extremely on
[00:04:30] reducing tension on the spinal cord, which turns out to be relevant to a lot of people
[00:04:35] who don't have a brain herniation like I do. But also I was specializing in working with
[00:04:40] children, like I did my postdoc, in working with kids with neurosensory integration challenges
[00:04:44] with ADHD, autism, schizophrenia, dyslexia, all sorts of neurodivergence. I realized that
[00:04:52] these kids I was taking care of and me having brain injury stuff and the stressed out parents
[00:04:58] taking care of high needs kids all had a lot of overlap. And that led me into looking more into
[00:05:03] nervous system dysregulation centrally and how to have the body release the tension in a way that
[00:05:09] doesn't overwhelm. So now what I do is I help others, whether they're struggling with chronic pain
[00:05:15] or nervous system dysregulation or deep seated patterns of tension and help people learn how
[00:05:20] to access their own body's ability to heal. And then also I train providers in this work
[00:05:26] as well. So I'm really passionate about making these tools very accessible. It felt like healing
[00:05:31] was a full time job for me in my 20s going to all these appointments. And I'm lucky that I was able
[00:05:36] to make my finances work for that. But it was like a lot of time, money, energy. It's like
[00:05:41] even though I found things that helped me, it was still if I dropped the ball on one piece,
[00:05:46] I would fall apart again. So I know from the inside what it feels like to be in a deeply
[00:05:51] traumatized, chronically ill way of being body and nervous system. And so I'm working hard to
[00:05:58] make these things accessible, whether for individuals or practitioners looking to go deeper. So I'm
[00:06:02] really excited to dive into this. I guess I'll leave it at that for now.
[00:06:08] I really appreciate just the acknowledgement of that feeling of like, if I can't hold on to
[00:06:14] all these things, I'm going to fall apart, right? And it just perpetuates that feeling of
[00:06:21] rigidity and stuckness and a lack of security and safety. It does. It's huge. And I'm so glad you
[00:06:29] said something about safety, because that's like, if you think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs,
[00:06:33] where it's like self actualization is at the top and the fullest expression of your purpose and
[00:06:37] your unique magic and who you are in the world. But you got to start with the foundation of
[00:06:42] basic needs. And Maslow talks about food, shelter. Yes, those are there. There's another
[00:06:48] huge piece that's missing for our sense of safety, which actually has to do with signaling that
[00:06:52] comes from the body. Okay. So you know what, let's start there, because that's somewhat of the core,
[00:06:59] right? Of exactly what you're helping people do is find that safety. So what's the starting
[00:07:04] point there, especially related to the neurofacial flow method? Yeah. So neurofacial flow actually
[00:07:12] has a five step framework. That's how we create change in a way that feels safe and
[00:07:17] actually lasts. And the step one, every time has to be establishing safety. Because when you're
[00:07:24] in a state of alarm, this is right down to a cellular level. I think I first learned this
[00:07:28] from Bruce Lipton, a cell biologist, and he taught us, you know, cells are either in defense
[00:07:33] mode or they're in growth and healing mode. And they can't be in both at the same time.
[00:07:37] It comes all the way up to the psychological level. Like if you're in an argument and you
[00:07:41] feel attacked and made wrong, how interested were you in changing your point of view to
[00:07:46] the other person's opinion in that moment, right? Like not at all. Even if later on reflection,
[00:07:52] you're like, oh, they made some good points. But if you feel attacked, it's really hard to
[00:07:56] actually grow and change. And we do that so much with our bodies when we say, oh, this
[00:08:01] symptom needs to change or this stuck thing needs to loosen. And you want it so desperately,
[00:08:06] and maybe the provider wants it so desperately for you, like you end up actually causing
[00:08:10] more dysregulation because you force change without safety. It's the most challenging thing,
[00:08:16] because then you end up seeing this boomerang effect in the nervous system that it's like,
[00:08:20] even if maybe you get a massage and it loosens those tight muscles and what an hour later,
[00:08:24] it snaps back to tight again, you know? And part of that can be because the system didn't feel
[00:08:31] safe and it feels safer in the known walk down place. Part of it can also be actually that
[00:08:36] you're trying to force the body to let go of some protective splinting that it still needs.
[00:08:42] And that's another layer of it. But the establishing of safety is crucial and there's
[00:08:47] actually ways that you can check in with your nervous system, not just from an intuitive level,
[00:08:53] I mean a psychological level, but even a neurological. I'll teach you if you like,
[00:08:57] one of the ways because in my mind, healing isn't just about the techniques to make a
[00:09:02] change happen. It's also about the metrics that you track progress with. You think about
[00:09:06] somebody detoxing from some heavy drugs, they're like shaking, crying, puking in a bucket, they feel
[00:09:13] like trash, but they're healing, right? That's the right thing. And so sometimes a healing crisis
[00:09:21] feels terrible and so then it's like, well we need metrics to know how am I actually moving
[00:09:26] in the right direction and having that greater agency over your own process and knowing your
[00:09:31] body more deeply, I think is a really powerful thing that especially when you've had chronic
[00:09:35] illness and you're being passed from specialist to specialist, it's like you don't even have control
[00:09:39] of your own body. And if you've had chronic illness for a long time, you feel like I don't even
[00:09:44] know what's going on with my body, especially if you literally have no diagnosis or a diagnosis
[00:09:49] like fibromyalgia that is just describing back to you in a technical term the symptoms that
[00:09:55] you told the doctor you had. Your fibrous tissue and muscles hurt fibromyalgia, like
[00:10:00] it doesn't say anything about what caused it. So one metric I really like to track is looking at
[00:10:05] the peripheral visual field, which is meant to be that you actually have 180 degrees of peripheral
[00:10:11] vision when you're at rest, when you're not stressed out, which we're meant to be in a
[00:10:16] parasympathetic calm mode of our nervous system when we're not needing to be in alarm. It's
[00:10:22] not to never go into that sympathetic fight or flight, it's just that, you know, sitting
[00:10:27] here right now, there's no reason for me to be in alarm. So I should have 180 degrees of
[00:10:31] peripheral vision. You want to try this with me? Yeah, let's do it. So the way you test it,
[00:10:35] put your back against a wall so that you know that you're at 180 degrees, but also I'm standing
[00:10:41] in the middle of the room. It's okay. I'm just going to put two thumbs up like this,
[00:10:44] and I'm going to put them back a little bit so I know I can't see them. And then slowly,
[00:10:48] one hand at a time, and you can do this in a mirror or since we're here on a screen
[00:10:52] together, you can just watch my nose. So you know you're using your peripheral vision
[00:10:55] only. Don't cheat. Don't look to the side. You'll automatically want to do that. Your brain will
[00:11:00] try, so don't let it. And you slowly bring one hand forward until you can see your thumb. Not a blob,
[00:11:06] but your actual thumb. And then you can freeze when you can see it. And then do the same thing on
[00:11:10] the other side. Slowly bring your hand forward to you can see your thumb. And then when you
[00:11:13] have both of them in your peripheral vision while looking forward, then you can look and
[00:11:18] maybe say, oh, this one's near that painting, that corner, and like this one's by that door
[00:11:23] frame or whatever, like see where you are in your room. That's another reason that it's helpful to
[00:11:26] do it in a doorway, because then you always know you're standing in the same spot when you do this.
[00:11:31] I mean, providers will take a measuring tool and like measure the angle. But
[00:11:35] however far forward you are, if you're forward at all from 180, that tells me to some degree
[00:11:40] your system is in alarm right now, just sitting here. And so that means it doesn't feel
[00:11:48] totally safe. Let's try something that you can use. And we'll see if we can change that
[00:11:54] metric right now. Okay, so I'm going to explain it a little bit first and then I'll give you a thing.
[00:11:58] So if you smash your finger in the door, what's the first thing you want to do?
[00:12:02] Other than maybe curse. Yeah, you want to squeeze it, you want to grab it. Yeah,
[00:12:08] because both deep pressure and movement send what's called proprioception signals to the brain.
[00:12:14] And it's a specific kind of calming signals that go to the brain. So when you smashed your finger,
[00:12:20] no seception alarm signals went. And then when you move it or use deep pressure, not light touch,
[00:12:26] but deep pressure, it sends proprioception goes on faster nerves, it races, it wins.
[00:12:32] But it's the brain's normal like built in mechanism for turning down the alarm response.
[00:12:38] So the no seception, the alarm triggered your brain to go into fight or flight.
[00:12:42] And part of that means more pain sensitivity, by the way. So you're going to be more attuned to feeling
[00:12:48] pain when you're in alarm. And proprioception brings it down. So the same science why weighted blankets
[00:12:55] and funder jackets on anxious dogs, like the deep pressure actually sends calming signals.
[00:13:02] So we're going to do what's called squeeze hugs. It's not massage. It's not trying to
[00:13:06] loosen anything. And it's not fingertips. It's like a really broad wave like motion
[00:13:12] that's deep and slow. And I'm compressing the joints and the soft tissue. So there's lots of
[00:13:18] bones in the hands. So I can go compress those joints. And it should feel somewhere between neutral
[00:13:23] and awesome. If it hurts at all, just skip that area, because it's a global response.
[00:13:28] So it doesn't matter where on the body you do this and see, I'm including the soft tissue
[00:13:33] as well as the joints. And you can see like I didn't, I just naturally took a breath and you
[00:13:39] can actually hear that my voice tone dropped and my speed slowed down. I didn't do that on purpose.
[00:13:46] That's how fast I was getting fuzzy and excited. That's how fast it actually makes a nervous
[00:13:52] system shift, which is really cool. So you do that for, you know, and I'm doing it on my arms
[00:13:58] because it's easier for you to see, but you can do it on your feet, you can do it on your
[00:14:01] legs. You can walk the palms of your hands with deep pressure on your rib cage. Now the neck and
[00:14:09] head can be sensitive, or it can feel really good to like deeply hold. And you got to play
[00:14:15] with that in your own body because for some people, this will feel great just to like
[00:14:20] squish it a bit. And for other people, it won't. And so like I said, don't push it.
[00:14:27] Find a place in your body. It feels good. And the feet honestly are usually the like
[00:14:31] safest place to start because of the furthest from the head. It often feels the best there.
[00:14:36] So recheck your peripheral vision. Watch me one hand at a time comes forward till you can see your
[00:14:42] thumb and then freeze there. Do the same thing on the other side. Bring your arm forward slowly
[00:14:48] till you can see your thumb. And once you can see them both in your peripheral vision,
[00:14:52] go ahead and take a look. They're a little farther back or
[00:14:56] Yeah, they're closer to my shoulders. Yeah. Yeah. So straight out sideways is normal.
[00:15:04] If you're forward a little bit. So question, because I can see them, right? But
[00:15:12] What does it mean? Yeah. And it's harder with people like with glasses. And it's a very subjective
[00:15:19] thing too. Because I'm like, well, you want to be able to see, I usually think like,
[00:15:23] can I identify that there is a fingernail? I don't have to like see the wrinkles on the finger. But
[00:15:28] to say it's not just a blob. Like I can tell yes, that's clearly a thumb. And where that is
[00:15:34] for you versus someone else, that's why you're comparing your pre and post, right? And you
[00:15:39] track it over time. And so you'll naturally get to know like, Oh, what does it mean for me?
[00:15:45] And it's like how we can never know if what you see as blue is exactly the same as what I
[00:15:50] see. Like the clarity on this. So it's a soft test. But it's a really helpful way that you can
[00:15:56] just get some feedback of, Oh, is this therapy session I just did? Or this misguage or this PT
[00:16:03] appointment or this chiropractic visit? Was it too much? And did it make it worse? Or did it
[00:16:09] help? It decreased it. And I'm not looking for it to be 100% back to normal with every
[00:16:14] single session. I'm actually more interested in building momentum over time and building
[00:16:19] safety into the body, because we want to be saying, Oh, we moved it from more alarm to less alarm,
[00:16:25] you know, less safety to more safety. So the further back you can see your thumbs,
[00:16:29] the more safety you know, you're having your nervous system.
[00:16:32] Wow. Okay, that's cool. I love those little checks, the pressure on body and the arms.
[00:16:39] I learned that with rate gets nerve activation, reactivated, and then you start
[00:16:43] soothing by just pressure like that. So I think all of the same mechanism, just like in different
[00:16:49] ways, but it feels so good. Yeah, it does. And it's so silly, simple too. It's interesting. Like I
[00:16:57] think of there's this woman that called me on like a Friday night, I couldn't see her baby until
[00:17:02] Monday. So I was gonna be out of town teaching all weekend. And she's like my three month old
[00:17:06] has barely slept more than 30 minutes. All he does is cry, like, I can hear baby crying
[00:17:11] in the background. She's crying on the phone. I was like, Oh, man, I like, but I can't see you
[00:17:16] this weekend. I taught her over the phone. I was like, do this with your baby. And it's still
[00:17:20] a decent amount of pressure. Like my fingernails are blanching, you can see, I'm not squishing
[00:17:25] with my fingernails, but it's like a very deep pressure without forcing it. It's really
[00:17:30] broad. And I said, do this with your baby, like on their feet, on their legs, on their arms.
[00:17:35] And she called me crying the next morning. And I was like, what's going on? And she said,
[00:17:39] my baby slept four hours at a stretch last night, woke up eight and then like woke up every like
[00:17:45] two hours to eat, you know, but like had a huge sleep session and was actually able to latch to
[00:17:50] nurse, which hadn't been working very well. And I didn't even start doing any hands on work yet,
[00:17:55] you know, which meant that by the time I saw the baby three days later, the baby was more
[00:17:59] receptive to whatever I was going to do clinically. It's really cool. It seems like
[00:18:04] silly simple. And I know a lot of the self soothing uses like brushing and light touch,
[00:18:08] and that does different things, but specifically the like really deep squeezes that are slow,
[00:18:14] like sustained in one spot and then sustained, that can be a really powerful calming piece.
[00:18:20] A lot of it has to do with how we signal safety to the brain using that proprioceptive
[00:18:25] feedback. I wonder how much to that connects with co-regulation when you're getting a deep
[00:18:31] hug from someone that feels safe. Right? That's kind of what I thought of too,
[00:18:35] when you're holding each other for a minute. That's why I call them squeeze hugs because
[00:18:40] it's like a good hug. It's the same kind of a thing. Of course, you're also getting some nice
[00:18:45] co-regulation with another person's system, but part of why a good hug feels so calming is
[00:18:50] that deep pressure and it's the being held. And so even bringing that energetic of being
[00:18:56] held into like this, I'm holding you here, like the cells of the body, you know, helping the
[00:19:03] tissues feel held without trying to change it. Oftentimes, so many providers are skipping
[00:19:08] right to step three. So the full five step framework of neurofacial flow is step one,
[00:19:13] establish safety. Step two, facilitate a softening. Invite a softening from the body
[00:19:19] on its own before you try to make a release happen. Step three is where you activate
[00:19:25] the change. And that's what pretty much every method, technique, therapy out there is just
[00:19:29] going right to step three. Except in neurofacial flow, there's a huge asterisk on it that we
[00:19:34] only do as much change as the nervous system is capable of integrating in that time without
[00:19:40] triggering any alarm. And there's so much like, you know, we think, oh, we just want the change
[00:19:46] to happen. And like this should be loose. This should not be stuck. You should change
[00:19:52] this dietary habit. We just want it to change instantly because it's quote unquote the right
[00:19:57] thing. But we use something in neurofacial flow called somatic tuning, where you can actually
[00:20:02] learn just like a musician can learn to hear if a note is a little sharp or a little flat,
[00:20:07] you can actually learn to feel the physical signs of your nervous system going out of safety,
[00:20:14] of your nervous system losing its sense of safety. And you get really fine tuned at
[00:20:18] it. And earlier that you can catch that, you can recalibrate. And there are different ramps
[00:20:23] that you can go back down. So if you're high on the ramp of pressure, you could reduce the pressure.
[00:20:28] Or if you're high on the ramp of how many things you're trying to change, you could reduce. Or
[00:20:33] if you're high on the ramp of it's really pinpoint, maybe you could lower the ramp by
[00:20:37] making a broader contact and giving more safety. So this is, you know, gets into some
[00:20:42] depth I teach for healthcare providers where I'm like, you can modulate how much change
[00:20:47] you're making in a way that maintains the safety the whole time. Because how many of us have gone
[00:20:53] to a massage therapist and you're like, Oh, just hurry, just loosen it. And it's okay. I can,
[00:20:58] I can deal with the pain because this is the right thing or chiropractic adjustment. You're
[00:21:02] like, let me just wiggle my toes and distract myself. And you check out of your body and
[00:21:06] you dissociate. And already with chronic illness, we're already using that very valid method
[00:21:12] of finding safety of dissociating, of stepping outside of the body because it doesn't feel like
[00:21:18] a safe place to be. But that's not going to integrate anyway. Like best case scenario,
[00:21:23] your brain just didn't track that we're going to make this change now. And so it snaps back
[00:21:28] to the familiar place. But worst case scenario, it triggers a rebound and a worsening of
[00:21:34] nervous system dysregulation because you violated the body's sense of safety. And so
[00:21:39] step three is make as much change as you can without losing safety. And then step four is
[00:21:45] reestablish safety because all change was hard, even in the right direction.
[00:21:49] Step five is to integrate and adapt to the new set point. So your brain has a map of self,
[00:21:55] and it has automatic pathways between the brain and the muscles to say, Oh, when I do this
[00:22:01] activity, I fire this, this, and this muscle. And it's in its place of lockdown where it has
[00:22:06] been. And so this is a crucial thing. I actually just finished our one of our weekly calls with
[00:22:12] the neurofacial flow certification program with the providers. And we were talking about how just
[00:22:17] bringing in 15 seconds, 30 seconds, like a small amount of unintentional movement. So like,
[00:22:24] you're not trying to do something specific, but you're just be a weirdo and explore space,
[00:22:29] right? Let your brain make a new map after you do whatever session, body work session,
[00:22:34] whatever, even, even psychotherapy, changing a belief, like helping or helping your brain make
[00:22:40] a new map of self is huge to do that adaptation. Just like, you know, you don't take your training
[00:22:46] wheels off your bike and then try to go BMX in the Olympics. Like you got to go through this
[00:22:50] and you can go through these steps, these five steps, concentrically bigger and deeper. And
[00:22:54] that's how you up spiral the healing process. Okay. So within that, especially the idea of
[00:23:00] like establishing safety and making change from a safe place. How do you understand or think about
[00:23:07] like expanding your window of tolerance within that, right? So like, I talk about this a lot
[00:23:12] in my body healing method, which is my nervous system, chronic pain program. And I love the
[00:23:17] beginning, the foundation, right? It's like, we have to establish safety. That's the first
[00:23:20] thing that we do because you're already so dysregulated pretty much everything you said.
[00:23:25] But at the same time, in order to change, we have to increase that a little bit from a place
[00:23:30] of safety. So do you understand what I'm saying? Like, where do you go with that?
[00:23:34] It actually comes up inside the chrysalis, my online membership, where people go through
[00:23:39] learning, yeah, fashion flow and integrating it. So it's this idea of like titrating the
[00:23:45] stressor, right? And incrementally getting used to it and growing it bigger. And there's
[00:23:53] different ways that this can be done. You know, I've seen it applied from some providers where
[00:23:57] they're just like exposure therapy, right? Like you just, that's what I'm saying. I've seen some
[00:24:01] providers have nothing. That's what you're doing. But I've seen some providers doing that,
[00:24:04] especially like an occupational therapy, for example, like OT kids with sensory issues.
[00:24:09] They're like, you just expose a little bit more, a little bit more. And I'm like, okay. But
[00:24:15] oftentimes that violates that sense of safety. And so what I think about with it a lot,
[00:24:20] and it's probably very similar to how you approach this, but I would invite the softening. So that
[00:24:26] step two is invite the softening from the body. So for example, I'll relay this how if I was
[00:24:33] going to adjust somebody's neck, because I have a chiropractic background, right? So I've done that.
[00:24:37] And I would say, okay, once I feel where the restriction is, I'm like, hey, do you feel
[00:24:44] how when I push here, it's stuck, but your body's like, yeah. And this side, it's not stuck at all,
[00:24:50] but your body's like, oh my God, don't touch that. You know, can you feel the difference in those?
[00:24:55] And I have somebody actually feel it like having awareness. And then I'm like, do you want me to
[00:25:02] adjust this? And if they're like, yeah, sure. And I'm like, no, no, no, I don't, I'm not
[00:25:07] saying are you going to tolerate me doing it. I'm asking, is this something you're
[00:25:10] reaching for? Do you actively want this change? And maybe step two, facilitate softening, could you
[00:25:20] find breathing into this area, like when you breathe in, can you reduce the clenching a little
[00:25:25] so it naturally expands, like fills up with air a little more, but without forcing it to
[00:25:31] take in more air, just if you use less effort, less clenching to allow the inflation,
[00:25:37] and then when you breathe out, could you find a more softening like, if I put a water balloon down,
[00:25:42] or I put some cookie dough in the oven and it goes, also reducing effort, reduce the restriction,
[00:25:48] the control of the out, and find some softening. And so like inviting, and even using that breath
[00:25:55] exercise, even if I was trying to change a habit, right? But it's like, could I find
[00:26:00] the place of less effort that allows greater motion in as something as simple as breath
[00:26:08] before then trying to do the change? And then say, now you have a greater range, a greater capacity
[00:26:15] to experience discomfort, because in my mind, that's not actually about feeling less pain,
[00:26:20] or less discomfort, it's actually about increasing my capacity to experience
[00:26:26] all of the range of feeling. You can't selectively numb, you can't numb only from pain, you numb from
[00:26:32] pain, you numb from joy. And so I, you know, as a human, I'd like people to feel better, but
[00:26:37] as a provider, I really want you to feel better, to feel more, to feel more accurately. And
[00:26:42] sometimes that does mean feeling pain and discomfort, but when I'm in a place of
[00:26:48] allowing my experience and actually being in my body and just feeling the sensations without
[00:26:55] forcing it to change or saying it should be different, when you set that up at the beginning first,
[00:27:01] then you get to that step three of whatever change you're trying to do. And it goes much easier.
[00:27:07] And you track your somatic tuning the whole time so that you know, as you're going up a ramp,
[00:27:12] not an elevator, like you gently go introduce more expansion and more change. And that way,
[00:27:18] if you're doing it slow enough and going on a ramp, not an elevator straight to the top level,
[00:27:22] you can track your somatic tuning. And you'll know, when you've hit your capacity,
[00:27:27] you can back off a little, you can reestablish safety, bring in the somatic practices of like
[00:27:32] proprioceptive feedback, for example, find some wiggles and moving around and just like recalibrating
[00:27:39] to a new set point, maybe rest, you know, and then you can keep going through that process
[00:27:45] concentrically deeper. So we talk about outcome independence. When we're moving, using a skill
[00:27:51] like somatic tracking, which I think is pretty much probably what you're saying, like,
[00:27:55] instead of somatically tracking to get rid of the pain, you're somatically tracking just to be
[00:27:59] in the moment to help your body feel safe to do the, whether it's a breath practice,
[00:28:04] whether it's tracking your body, whether it's just like being with whatever is present,
[00:28:08] instead of let me just do the skill so that the pain goes away, because our brains are
[00:28:13] too smart for that. And they're not just going to like bypass the actual practice.
[00:28:16] That's kind of similarly to what I was hearing from you in a way.
[00:28:20] I love that. I will clarify that somatic tuning is a specific practice of feeling
[00:28:27] the physical sensations of the loss of safety. So it's a nervous system tracking tool that
[00:28:33] actually tracks when you go from a parasympathetic to a sympathetic or sympathetic to more sympathetic.
[00:28:40] It's taking into account physiological changes like your heart rate, your breathing.
[00:28:46] It's slightly different for different people. So I go through a process of actually
[00:28:50] teaching you how to identify your specific physiological signs, but there's generally a
[00:28:57] theme of constriction versus expansion and a sensation of constriction versus expansion.
[00:29:03] So it's slightly different person to person, but that's the general theme of being able to
[00:29:07] use that somatic tuning. I also call it sometimes tune into your nervous system,
[00:29:11] but it's specifically being able to tell when you've lost safety versus you still have.
[00:29:16] A sense of safety. And we use that so that whether you're doing some neurofacial flow exercises or
[00:29:23] your practices or they're doing qigong or they're deciding what to eat for dinner or you're deciding
[00:29:28] whether to stay on a job or like big things, little things, you can check in and say,
[00:29:33] what's it doing in my body? And this is a common practice to say, how does it feel in
[00:29:37] my body when I think about different things? This is just kind of a refinement on that to
[00:29:43] specifically tune into the neurological, the autonomic neurological response
[00:29:48] to be able to say, how is this affecting my nervous systems? It's explicitly.
[00:29:54] Yeah, which is important because that's to understand that about ourselves is so powerful
[00:29:59] because then we can meet ourselves where we are and help find that safety if we need it
[00:30:03] or expand. Yeah, I totally make sense. You can use it to say, oh, okay, so I've
[00:30:09] lost my sense of safety. Great. Fine. Now, how can I pull from the different tools I have?
[00:30:14] Like this is one of the things I'm actually doing in the certification for the providers is I'm like,
[00:30:18] I want you to make a list of every step one tool you know, every step two tool you know,
[00:30:22] and we can do that as individuals as well. I can say, what are all the ways I know
[00:30:26] to establish safety? And I gave you one with the squeeze hugs. I'm sure, Gracie, you teach
[00:30:31] so many others. There are a ton of tools that we can gather over the years. And that's
[00:30:35] what I mean with neurofascial flow. Like it has some specific tools in it that are cool
[00:30:39] fascia releases and nervous system regulation. But it's more about this framework of saying,
[00:30:45] how can I say, oh, clearly I did my step three, maybe I made more change than my system was ready
[00:30:51] for. I need a step four reestablished safety, which is going to be your same tools as step
[00:30:56] one. And how can I pull from whichever of those tools feels good to me right now?
[00:31:00] Yeah, I love that there is that additional, we did some change, like we need to stop safety again.
[00:31:06] How do we adapt? How do we integrate that and then actually make that part of my new way of being?
[00:31:13] So I'm not constantly backsliding, because oftentimes we make some progress, it goes back,
[00:31:18] we make some progress, it goes back, and it can go much more efficiently and effectively.
[00:31:23] You know, it's like even if even if you don't have intense nervous system
[00:31:27] dysregulation, and maybe it didn't totally wreck your nervous system, which it could have if you
[00:31:32] have chronic illness, but like maybe somebody who doesn't have chronic illness, you still if you
[00:31:37] exceed the capacity of the system's ability to process it, maybe you don't get more dysregulated,
[00:31:43] but you're constantly having to do frequent sessions. And when we talked at the beginning
[00:31:48] about like, oh my gosh, if I miss one day of my self care routine, I fall apart,
[00:31:54] this might be part of it that there's actually not stability in the change. And so part of
[00:32:00] cultivating the stability is using this five step framework. Yeah. Okay. Can we go back for a minute
[00:32:06] and talk about fascia? What exactly it is for people and how that fits? Like how do you work
[00:32:12] with it? Yeah, totally. So fascia is this spider webby like material that runs through
[00:32:18] the entire body. Like if you see on the cut of meat, there's some tough white stuff,
[00:32:23] they've cut most of it off. That material, which is actually pretty tough, like spider webs are
[00:32:29] actually tough. It is enmeshed and entangled and every bit of muscle and bone and organs are all
[00:32:37] suspended in the fascia. It's actually the scaffolding of the body. And we are taught
[00:32:42] by and large in all kinds of healthcare programs that the skeleton is the support
[00:32:47] structure of the body and the muscles move it. And fascia isn't talked about much, although granted,
[00:32:54] I graduated 15 years ago and it's getting more in the conversation now. I think fascia is really
[00:32:59] having like a moment. It's so cool. But what's happening is there's a lot of forcing of fascia
[00:33:04] release, which we've been talking about. But the fascia acts kind of like fabric. So if
[00:33:10] there's a constriction or adhesions like stickiness between these bits of fascia or the fascia
[00:33:15] and the muscle or the fascia and the bone over here, and then you move, it creates these tension lines
[00:33:22] across the body. And what happens then is it distorts how the body is able to absorb and disperse force.
[00:33:30] So cars from like 50 years ago, you look at the crash tests and they were these like big bricks
[00:33:36] of cars. You'd think they're like really safe, right? But they've done crash tests where they
[00:33:40] compared them to cars now. And the cars back then, all the force came head on and the crash test
[00:33:47] done me like, you definitely know they didn't survive. If you look at videos of that now,
[00:33:52] the force is actually designed to disperse around the driver and be absorbed through the frame of
[00:33:58] the car differently. And it's that same thing in the body where fascia is the thing here,
[00:34:04] I have a little model here that allows because it's this continuous elastic that when force
[00:34:09] comes in, it allows the whole thing to disperse the force and distort across the system and then
[00:34:15] come back to center unharmed once the force is removed. But if you have adhesions and stuck places,
[00:34:23] then when force comes in, something's more likely to break or get injured. And so in the body,
[00:34:28] when we have adhesions, stuck places, dunkiness, because of inflammation, because of injury,
[00:34:35] because the brain is using the fascia to protect part of the body, it's a really strong
[00:34:40] protective function. So it will actually glue itself, especially in the rib cage that's super common
[00:34:46] in chronic illness and chronic pain when there's a high alarm mode, survival mode in the nervous
[00:34:52] system, then the ribs get gluey together. My theory is because it's trying to protect
[00:34:56] your vital organs, like turn your rib cage into armor. So I can tell you the correlation
[00:35:01] and that's my guess at the cause. But I see it in 100% of people who are in sympathetic dominance,
[00:35:07] or, you know, this is beyond what we're talking about today, but polyvagal theory,
[00:35:10] like a dorsal vagal functional freeze collapse, any kind of survival alarm mode, we see this
[00:35:17] constriction here. And what ends up happening really simply with this example with the rib cage
[00:35:22] is you try to go side to side and you can try this right now. Like if you try to make tiny
[00:35:28] little waves, like you're made of seaweed, you might notice that in your lower body it moves fine,
[00:35:33] like your lower back, your belly, and then from here to here, it wants to move straight and then
[00:35:38] your head wants to flop. And that's really common if this is all gluey together up here,
[00:35:44] which means there's excessive demand on the neck. So then your muscles become super tight
[00:35:48] because they're trying to protect your neck from flopping and your rib cage doesn't expand
[00:35:53] enough for breathing. And so then your muscles up here that should be just accessory muscles
[00:35:58] have to lift to get your pressure gradient and help you inflate your lungs. So you have
[00:36:03] chronically tight neck muscles that you can get a massage all day long and your brain's like,
[00:36:07] nope, those are supposed to be tight. And what you really need to do is actually loosen the
[00:36:11] fascial adhesions in the ribs. So there's these like patterns of fascial entanglement and
[00:36:17] adhesions, but you can't just tear this open if it feels protective. Sometimes you need to
[00:36:22] start from the bottom. Sometimes you need to do nervous system regulation first. So I never teach
[00:36:27] people the fascial unwinding in the rib cage at the beginning because it's so often boomerangs.
[00:36:33] Even though that's causing a lot of issues, it's not the place to start. And so there's a lot
[00:36:38] with fascial unwinding that's really important in the order of operations. And the main
[00:36:43] fascial line that I have found to be clinically most impactful is actually one that I named.
[00:36:50] I published a study in the Canadian Pain Journal, I think it was 2015, where we showed working on
[00:36:55] fascia in the lower legs reduced headache intensity and frequency. And it's because of this kinetic
[00:37:02] chain, this movement chain, between the dura, the lining of the skull and spinal cord that's
[00:37:09] like a sleeve around your spinal cord attaches to your tailbone. And then there's ligaments from
[00:37:14] your tailbone to your sit bones. And then the fascia, this spider webbing material is more dense in the
[00:37:20] back of the legs and going down into the plantar fascia, the feet. And so that whole dura fascial
[00:37:26] kinetic chain means that if you have tension in your plantar fascia or between the muscles of
[00:37:31] your calves gets gluey together really commonly. And then you have that tangle of fascia in the
[00:37:36] calves. And then you walk around and it yanks up into your tailbone puts too much tension
[00:37:41] in your spinal cord, brainstem, brains hate that, and it perpetuates alarm. But like pulling up your
[00:37:47] stockings, you can't do it from the waist, you got to do it from the bottom. So we actually feed
[00:37:51] the length upward. And that gives more breathing room to the body. That's an extremely common
[00:37:57] situation to see that DFKC tension. So the fascia is all of this soft tissue, it's ligaments,
[00:38:03] it's tendons, it's the dura is like a specialized form of it. But I use the term very
[00:38:09] all inclusively because it's all connected in this web. And so like fabric, you can have these
[00:38:16] kinetic chain pulls. Okay, we talk a lot about chronic pain specifically, like with fibromyalgia
[00:38:23] and I pain back pain and things like that. How would someone approach your work knowing that
[00:38:28] there is that chronic pain and that it's not just about like a misalignment in your spine
[00:38:34] or something like that? Like how do you approach it from that knowing the fascia,
[00:38:37] but also the nervous system and I think some other components too. Yeah, there's like plenty
[00:38:42] of fascia release techniques and also a lot of nervous system regulation happening right now.
[00:38:46] And there's definitely a lack of the intersection I think. I'll start by just saying I feel like
[00:38:51] chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia are both often really misunderstood, both by the medical world
[00:38:57] and by the people living with them. What I see in my work is like these conditions aren't
[00:39:02] random. They're the body in a state of prolonged protection. And so that's an important starting
[00:39:08] point to say your body isn't broken. It's not doing something wrong. It's actually doing something
[00:39:11] very intelligent. When the nervous system perceives ongoing threat, whether from trauma,
[00:39:17] chronic stress, illness, past injuries, it can get stuck in a dysregulated state because
[00:39:23] all change is hard. We often when we don't know how to process something, whether that's
[00:39:28] cognitively or physiologically, we freeze, we split. And that's very normal. But if you don't
[00:39:35] soften again and get back to neuro structural fluidity where all joints all soft tissue,
[00:39:40] everything can articulate. Not just can I touch my toes, but can I articulate through all the
[00:39:45] places that actually mirrors into our neurological adaptability because when you have stuck places,
[00:39:52] whether they're stuck joints or stuck fascia, it's starving the brain of the
[00:39:58] proprioception that normally would come from there. So normally I told you proprioception is
[00:40:02] how we recover. But if you have a bunch of stuck places in your body, now any new stressor,
[00:40:08] whether that's physical stress, emotional, chemical, like anything, is going to have to
[00:40:13] be handled by the brain with one hand behind its back because it doesn't have enough
[00:40:16] proprioception to recover. And adding insult to injury is that 24 hours a day those stuck
[00:40:22] places are sending alarm signals instead. So even if nothing else stressed you out
[00:40:27] and you had a perfect diet and wonderful relationships and you love your job and you
[00:40:32] feel like you're creatively expressing yourself and like all of the things you get exercise,
[00:40:37] but you have stuck places anywhere in your body, it's perpetuating alarm signals 24 hours a day
[00:40:42] saying help I'm stuck. So when that happens, everything shifts, your energy levels crash,
[00:40:46] your pain becomes widespread and even basic recovery processes and digestive processes and
[00:40:52] fertility processes and hormonal regulation goes haywire. And then you end up trying to address
[00:40:59] all these pieces separately, but they're all just happening not because you're broken,
[00:41:04] but because your brain is stuck in this adaptive state. So fascia plays such a huge role in that
[00:41:09] as one of the body's primary protective systems. If there's any unresolved stress or trauma,
[00:41:15] whether it's physical or emotional, the fascia locks into this bracing pattern,
[00:41:20] trying to protect the body and creating mechanical tension that affects everything
[00:41:24] from movement and how we absorb force to circulation and nervous system function.
[00:41:29] That's why so many people with fibromyalgia experience pain that seems to have no clear source
[00:41:35] because the body is holding onto layers and layers of unprocessed tension.
[00:41:39] So what I have found in my work is that instead of forcing the body to do more and pushing
[00:41:46] through fatigue or aggressively breaking up the fascia or joint restrictions,
[00:41:51] real healing happens as we've talked about when we create safety first and help the body shift
[00:41:57] in a way that we work with the nervous system and gently release the stored patterns in the
[00:42:01] fascia, then the body can shift from survival mode into a state where healing and replenishment
[00:42:06] actually become not just possible, but inevitable because the body wants to heal itself. It wants
[00:42:11] to be self-regulating, like that's its natural state of being. It's just that there are things
[00:42:17] in the way. And I often think in my training in chiropractic, we were taught something is
[00:42:23] stuck, loose, set it up. Like that's helpful to say yes, like if a joint gets jammed up in
[00:42:28] the spine, it can mess with the brain body signaling, that's accurate. But like there's
[00:42:32] this little baby boy I took care of last week for just one week because I was visiting a place
[00:42:37] I used to live and I used to take care of his older brother and the family had been taking this
[00:42:41] three week old to their family chiropractor and they would adjust the neck and the spit up,
[00:42:46] like incessant spit up and not pooping and think like the symptoms will get better for 24 hours
[00:42:52] and then come right back every time. And so I'm like, when I checked him, I was like, yeah,
[00:42:57] his neck is jammed up. But also there's a ton of fascial tension in this entire right side
[00:43:02] on the torso and then in the back on the left side, like counter balancing.
[00:43:06] And when I started releasing that, the neck adjusted itself and the symptoms resolved.
[00:43:11] So oftentimes it's about thinking about the whole blanket that is distorted, right? But you can't just
[00:43:18] do it all at once, which is why it can take time. Like if you've had these bracing patterns for a
[00:43:23] long time, norefascial flow is a lot about how can we use neurosomatic practices using
[00:43:29] especially proprioceptive feedback to create a window of access so that your symptoms can
[00:43:36] start to come down, which will allow us to like ease into releasing the restrictions in a way that
[00:43:42] feels safe and giving your body the time to integrate that because I don't think that my role
[00:43:48] is to like do all the things for my patients. I actually think my role is to unlock the
[00:43:52] stuckest stuff, but because I helped the nervous system go from a state of alarm to a state of
[00:43:58] prioritizing healing, it'll continue to unwind in between as opposed to backslide every time.
[00:44:06] Thank you for explaining that because I don't have the words and obviously you don't have the
[00:44:10] words for that, but I do know that it's a pattern and it's a signal. Like if you are continuing
[00:44:16] to go and get adjustments and you're okay for a day and then not and you have to keep going back
[00:44:20] over and over and over, it's not actually changing anything. And that is a very common
[00:44:24] common occurrence with chronic pain. I want to acknowledge that there is some repetition
[00:44:29] to retrain old patterns. Like that is a thing that's valid. That's why we track metrics
[00:44:34] like the peripheral visual field and a bunch of other metrics to say, but are we still making progress?
[00:44:40] Is your system holding longer and longer with each session? Because sure, the first visit,
[00:44:45] it only holds 24 hours normal, but like it should hold a couple of days the next time and maybe
[00:44:50] a week the next time. Like you should have progressive stability coming. And if I'm not
[00:44:56] seeing anything change, I'd say in an adult, this is different than a newborn, but in an
[00:45:00] adult, I would say if I'm seeing the exact same patterns more than six times in a row
[00:45:06] and the body's not even trying to do a different kind of pattern, I'm missing something.
[00:45:10] Yeah. Okay. I feel like we could definitely talk way more, but we're coming up on time.
[00:45:16] And I first want to say, I forgot to mention this at the beginning for anyone who's listening,
[00:45:20] if you were listening on the podcast, go over to YouTube because we have been doing some
[00:45:24] physical interactions and she taught me a practice that would be really helpful for you
[00:45:27] to hear or see, for you to see. So go on over to YouTube and watch it. But yeah, I just,
[00:45:33] this is so fascinating. It's so cool to see and I'm really glad. You can say it. Fascinating.
[00:45:41] Fascinating. Oh, you're amazing. Thank you. Yes. That's wonderful.
[00:45:48] Love when you write something like that. Cool. Yeah. We share a client, which is how
[00:45:54] I found you or you found me. She found you. So I think this is such a cool way to work together
[00:46:01] and or to share work because this is like explaining the physical along with the mental
[00:46:06] emotional and we didn't even fully get there. But you know, in terms of the nervous system,
[00:46:10] like it all goes together, obviously. So I'll ask this one last question. Is there
[00:46:14] anything else that you feel like is really important just to like get across through
[00:46:18] all of this work? If I can leave you with one thing, it is this. Think about a little baby,
[00:46:24] right? You went from a fertilized egg to trillions of cells that all know how to do their job without
[00:46:29] anyone telling them what to do, at least a bottle of doctor. When you get a cut, you don't have to
[00:46:34] tell fiberglass to go stitch it up. When you eat food, you don't have to tell it to send
[00:46:38] the protein over here, right? Like at least not our lab, but you don't have to do that. It
[00:46:42] knows. And you know, have you ever held a brand new baby, whether it's one you made or somebody
[00:46:48] else made, and you just look at this baby and you're like, Oh my God, this is a miracle. It's a
[00:46:53] miracle. And the thing that you've probably forgotten, it's going to make me cry because I always have
[00:46:58] to remind myself of this too, is that you are still that same miracle, but even more so because
[00:47:05] you've lasted this long. And no matter how much pain or dysfunction or challenges and suffering
[00:47:13] that you're having, the intelligence that grew you from a tiny little fertilized egg into all of
[00:47:18] the cells that know how to do their job is still there. Your body is doing its very best and it is
[00:47:24] deeply intelligent. And if you're religious and you want to think about it like a piece of God
[00:47:27] inside you, great. And if you're not, it's still magic. And your capacity to heal is far, far
[00:47:36] greater than you've probably been led to believe. And I say that we didn't share, I didn't
[00:47:41] share a lot of my story, but I say that coming through what I was told was terminal cancer, multiple
[00:47:47] traumatic brain injuries, over 20 concussions, chronic Lyme disease, which is no longer in my
[00:47:52] system. So I say this from deep experience that your ability to heal is so much greater than
[00:48:00] what people have led you to believe and what you can, what I can even know. I every year
[00:48:06] probably I turn and look back and I'm like, Oh my God, I'm so much more functional than
[00:48:10] anybody, including me ever thought I would be. Wow. Yeah. That was amazing to hear and very much so
[00:48:19] needed because we often always forget. Yeah. We do. And we're bombarded with, you know,
[00:48:25] with messaging that, that we're broken. That there's something wrong with you that, oh,
[00:48:31] like somebody recommended this book to me about the microglia in the brain. And it's like,
[00:48:37] they just go bad. They're the road, you know, and there's so much conversation like around
[00:48:42] chronic illness that's like, Oh, this thing just it's just broken. Like it's just not working
[00:48:46] right. And I'm like, actually, it's probably working exactly right. It's just that we're
[00:48:51] not meant to stay in a state of chronic alarm. But your brain is trying to survive. And we
[00:48:58] can always help it. We can always help it get back to that place. I have seen improvement
[00:49:04] in an 85 year old patient that I saw for the first time of her life that everybody else had
[00:49:08] given up on. And that's actually most of the patients I've seen in the past five, 10 years
[00:49:13] are people that everybody else gave up on. And I don't say this lightly, but I have seen
[00:49:19] improvement in 100% of people that I've worked with to some degree or another. Even people
[00:49:25] that had genetic conditions, permanent, whatever, you know, you have somebody missing an arm and
[00:49:30] maybe they can do 90% of the functionality of someone with all their limbs, but they're
[00:49:35] functioning at 60% and everybody looks at them and says, well, that's because you're missing an arm.
[00:49:39] And I'm like, no, but what's your greatest capacity? Because your greatest capacity is,
[00:49:44] I can almost guarantee it better than where you are right now. And it's a matter of supporting
[00:49:48] your body, not trying to micromanage the healing process or fix you, but instead
[00:49:53] saying, how can we get your body to want to prioritize self healing again? Not that
[00:49:58] you'll never need outside help, but that should come first. That's the foundation.
[00:50:02] Let's actually make sure your body's like in self healing mode. And then we can see maybe
[00:50:08] now we can say, Oh, this supplement will be super helpful, or this specific brain retraining
[00:50:14] exercise will be super helpful, or this primitive reflex integration will be helpful.
[00:50:18] But like throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks when your body's not even
[00:50:22] interested in self healing because it's busy in survival mode, doesn't make any sense.
[00:50:27] Completely. So much time and money and energy and heartache.
[00:50:33] You know, I'm trying to do that. See that all the time and just conventional medicine and things
[00:50:38] just just trying to try whatever or an alternative, right? Like you said, taking all the supplements,
[00:50:43] all the things try this, try that, try that, but you have no idea actually what's going on.
[00:50:47] Yeah, I don't feel like you're a medicine doctor trying to put me on like $2,000 worth
[00:50:51] of supplements. Oh my God. It's intense. Yeah.
[00:50:58] But it doesn't have to be that way. And when you focus on starting with getting the nervous system
[00:51:03] into a healing state of being, and there are a lot of components, but the structural one is one
[00:51:09] that's missed a lot of the time. So that's really where I try to support people is helping
[00:51:14] you to be able to self assess. And a lot of the fascia release you can actually do
[00:51:19] on yourself at home. Like the first 40 to 70% you can do yourself before you even need to go see
[00:51:26] someone. And that's why I have my online membership is to teach people how to do that and give a
[00:51:30] container where you can begin this process in a way that is not going to cost you an arm and a leg
[00:51:36] and take 60 minutes of practice every day. You know, it takes like eight minutes.
[00:51:41] Amazing. Okay. So then where can people find you and find your program?
[00:51:45] Yeah. So the best way to connect with me is through inside the chrysalis. That's my online
[00:51:49] membership where I teach neurofascial flow method that helps people with chronic illness,
[00:51:53] nervous system, dysregulation, and unresolved tension. It's a space where you get guided
[00:51:58] practices, expert insights, and a community that really understands the healing journey. So
[00:52:03] I will share the link with you, but also on anybody listening, you can go to my website,
[00:52:07] which is drsatyawellness, D-R-S-A-T-Y-A, wellness.com. And it's right there on the front page.
[00:52:15] But I'll also give Grace the link so you can post it in here. Yeah. And I'd love to hear your
[00:52:21] thoughts on today's episode. Like feel free to connect with me on Instagram or TikTok.
[00:52:25] I'm at drsatyawellness, D-R-S-A-T-Y-A wellness. So just reach out.
[00:52:30] Thanks so much for having me, Grace. This has been such an amazing conversation.
[00:52:34] I hope it sparked some new insights for people listening. And yeah, I just can't wait to continue
[00:52:39] the conversation. Yeah, I know that it will. And honestly, I feel like there needs to be
[00:52:44] a follow-up because I think there's even more. I want to know more about your story.
[00:52:47] I think that could be really powerful. Yeah, I'm happy to share.
[00:52:52] All right. Well, thank you so much again. Really, really appreciate it. I know this
[00:52:56] will definitely be helpful for our listeners. Absolutely. Thank you.
[00:53:00] If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to me if you could do
[00:53:04] these couple things. One, go to the Heal With Grace show page wherever you listen
[00:53:09] and tap the plus sign or click on the follow button so you don't miss an episode.
[00:53:13] It helps both of us out. While you're there, if you could give a five star review so that
[00:53:18] this podcast can reach more people, it would mean so much to me so I can continue sharing
[00:53:23] episodes that help you as well as others. Thanks for listening and I hope this brings
[00:53:28] you hope on your journey.