Healing Migraines and Unexplained Jaw Pain with Liana Mauro

[00:00:00] Hey there and welcome to Heal With Grace.
[00:00:03] I'm your host Grace Secker and I'm a holistic licensed therapist and nervous system coach
[00:00:08] who believes that the chronic and often unseen symptoms you're living with are a sign of
[00:00:12] something deeper going on.
[00:00:14] A sign that your nervous system needs attention.
[00:00:17] In each episode, I'll share the science behind the most common chronic health disorders
[00:00:21] plus holistic health tips using mental, physical, and spiritual practices.
[00:00:26] You'll hear what I've learned in my journey and the true stories from our trusted guests
[00:00:30] so you can feel less alone in your experience and give yourself grace no matter what you're
[00:00:34] going through.
[00:00:36] So without further ado, settle in and get cozy.
[00:00:38] It's time to Heal With Grace.
[00:00:42] Hello and welcome back to the Heal With Grace podcast.
[00:00:45] I have Leana here who is one of our holistic psychotherapists and nervous system coaches
[00:00:49] over here at Elevate Therapy and Wellness and she specializes in anxiety, trauma,
[00:00:55] pain, and illness and really helps guide clients through discovering their purpose and meaning
[00:01:00] in life.
[00:01:02] She has an interesting story because she got her master's degree in counseling in 2008
[00:01:07] but then founded her own Pilates studio which she sold after 10 and a half years because
[00:01:12] she felt called to work with clients in a more holistically healing way.
[00:01:16] She believes the integration of holistic modalities more effectively heals than approaching
[00:01:21] healing in parts and incorporates a variety of modalities like movement, dance, breath
[00:01:27] work, mindfulness, sound, and spirituality.
[00:01:31] She is an LPC associate and our practice Elevate.
[00:01:35] She's a Reiki master pain reprocessing therapist and fully certified Pilates instructor.
[00:01:40] And so I have her today to talk about her journey and how she works with clients.
[00:01:45] So I'm very excited.
[00:01:46] Welcome Leana.
[00:01:47] Thank you so much Grace.
[00:01:49] I'm excited to be here.
[00:01:50] Yeah, me too.
[00:01:51] I've been looking forward to this episode because as our listeners already know, I have a very
[00:01:57] holistic background as well but you become such a big part of our program of what we
[00:02:01] do and seeing clients and have an interesting background as well.
[00:02:05] And so I think it's really important for them to get to know you and just to share
[00:02:08] your story because it's a pretty wonderful, powerful one that incorporates mind and
[00:02:13] body therapy.
[00:02:14] So, okay, I will stop talking and let you talk.
[00:02:17] So Leana, tell us a little about you and how you became, how your journey led you to be
[00:02:23] a mind, body therapist.
[00:02:25] Yeah, so therapy has been part of my world, like really most of my life.
[00:02:30] I had some childhood experiences that led me to start seeing a therapist when I was
[00:02:35] 15.
[00:02:36] At the time, I wasn't really invested in the therapeutic process.
[00:02:40] My parents actually made me start that by the time I was about 19 is when I really
[00:02:46] became committed to changing my life and healing.
[00:02:50] I had a life-altering moment where I really made a commitment to myself to figure out how
[00:02:57] to discover joy and really change pretty much everything in my entire life.
[00:03:02] I didn't have life makeover from my friends to how I spent my time to what I mentally
[00:03:08] consumed through books, the music I listened to, how I spoke out loud, how I spoke
[00:03:13] to myself and like on and on.
[00:03:17] I had also been self-medicating and drinking pretty heavily and I completely stopped and
[00:03:22] didn't drink again until my mid-20s.
[00:03:25] It was through this journey and experiencing very radical positive changes in my life
[00:03:30] that I became really interested in mental health and I just started devouring books
[00:03:36] about psychology and just became so passionate about healing.
[00:03:40] And ever since I was young, I've always wanted to make a difference in the world and help
[00:03:44] people.
[00:03:45] So after graduating from college, I decided to get my master's in counseling psychology.
[00:03:50] Along the way, I became interested in working with people in the prison system.
[00:03:55] It really broke my heart and still does.
[00:03:59] Thinking that there's anyone in the world who like literally doesn't have anyone there
[00:04:02] for them.
[00:04:03] I was very young, you know, in my early to mid-20s and very idealistic and
[00:04:09] also hadn't quite yet fully recognized who I am and what my needs are and what my capacity
[00:04:17] is.
[00:04:18] So at that time, I started working primarily with court-mandated clients, which was incredibly
[00:04:24] joining on me.
[00:04:26] I had my life threatened twice and a long-term client of mine committed suicide and honestly
[00:04:32] things felt pretty dark.
[00:04:34] My mom noticed and as I'd always loved Pilates, she suggested I get certified and teach it
[00:04:41] on the side.
[00:04:42] I quickly found that I just loved it so much more than the work I had been doing.
[00:04:46] So as my Pilates schedule filled, I gradually phased out of the therapy world and just
[00:04:51] dove into Pilates and got really into working with injury prevention and rehabilitation.
[00:04:57] I come from a family of business owners, so it felt really natural for my next step
[00:05:01] to be to start a studio.
[00:05:04] And personally, I originally got into Pilates because of chronic pain and injuries and so
[00:05:08] that's what our studio's focus was.
[00:05:11] And because I was working with clients who were in pain, a lot of times clients would start
[00:05:16] crying in our sessions together and it sounds obvious to say now, but I started becoming
[00:05:22] so aware that we are interconnected beings and true healing does not happen in approaching
[00:05:30] healing in separate pieces, but by truly approaching it in a holistic and integrated way.
[00:05:37] So over time, the physical work that I was doing with clients started to feel very limiting
[00:05:42] and kind of uninteresting and probably about five years into having a studio, it became
[00:05:47] really clear that this was not my path.
[00:05:50] While this was happening, my own experiences and healing journey was continuing and as
[00:05:55] I personally continue to grow and heal, continue on my therapy with my own personal therapy,
[00:06:02] I started feeling called back into this world.
[00:06:04] But this time to do it, like Grace said, in a more holistic way with a population that
[00:06:09] actually wants to be part of the therapeutic process.
[00:06:12] So my long term vision is to really be able to integrate all the things that have
[00:06:17] helped me and that's working with the body, the nervous system, the brain through
[00:06:22] therapy and also things that bring in fun, like that's so important and freedom, a connection
[00:06:27] to the intuitive self, things like spirituality, art, dancing, writing, walk, taking walks
[00:06:34] and meditation, like there was just so much that contributed to where and who I am today
[00:06:39] and I just want to be able to offer that to clients.
[00:06:43] So when I came back into the mental health space, I was having trouble finding therapists
[00:06:49] who are operating in a way that aligned with my long term vision.
[00:06:52] So I started searching online for holistic therapists in Austin, which is how I found you.
[00:06:57] And the timing of that, as I'm going to talk about later, was pretty incredible.
[00:07:03] OK, so we even have a similar story and starting off in therapy.
[00:07:08] Young and in the beginning, I actually didn't like it either or I didn't know.
[00:07:12] I didn't understand it.
[00:07:13] But I mean, it sounds like along the way you've had you made a lot of progress
[00:07:18] mentally and physically and then finally realized, OK, there's there's
[00:07:22] definitely a connection here.
[00:07:24] And so I'm curious, like when you were working with Pilates clients, yeah.
[00:07:30] And you recognize there was obviously more component here than just working
[00:07:35] with them physically.
[00:07:37] Did you know that there were mind and body type therapies
[00:07:42] that focused on healing and working with chronic pain?
[00:07:46] Or was it more that you were just noticing more mental and emotional
[00:07:49] struggles with people that you wanted to work with?
[00:07:52] Probably, yes and no.
[00:07:54] I didn't have this clear moment where it was this accumulation of moments, right?
[00:07:59] My answer to whether or not I knew that there were therapies
[00:08:03] that approached physical symptoms by like through the therapy world.
[00:08:09] No, I did not know that.
[00:08:11] I didn't know about that until I found you and met you and talked
[00:08:15] about the work that you do.
[00:08:16] But what what was happening is there were positions or movements
[00:08:24] that I kept noticing would be the ones that would pull up something
[00:08:30] in a client where and like and they would notice it too.
[00:08:34] And I was in a Pilates studio.
[00:08:36] Sometimes there'd be other people in there.
[00:08:37] It wasn't the appropriate place, obviously, to get into that.
[00:08:41] And I felt like I was really lacking in being able to move people
[00:08:45] through that in a way that intuitively I felt was appropriate for them.
[00:08:50] And I didn't know what it was that I was seeing, but it was like
[00:08:54] there were these places and these movements that would trigger
[00:08:57] these things and people that told me that, OK, we hold.
[00:09:02] Which again, it sounds so obvious for you to say now knowing what I know.
[00:09:05] But I was like, it felt just so eye-opening that I was like,
[00:09:08] oh, we really hold things in our bodies and I'm approaching this work
[00:09:13] purely from a physical standpoint, but there's something going on
[00:09:18] beneath the surface that, you know, they're coming to me for physical,
[00:09:23] but there's something below it that's being held in their body.
[00:09:26] And I think that we could do more work in releasing these things
[00:09:31] than just in a Pilates studio.
[00:09:33] Does that make sense?
[00:09:35] Yes, it truly does.
[00:09:36] And I'm actually really glad that you mentioned that and gave those little
[00:09:40] examples, because I mean, even as you're talking, I get I get excited
[00:09:45] and a little chills and that might sound odd because I'm not excited
[00:09:49] that people are feeling pain, right?
[00:09:51] But I'm excited that there's that connection that it's coming out.
[00:09:55] Whether you were able to help them in that moment or not,
[00:09:58] they actually made that connection there when you start to feel an emotion
[00:10:02] when you do a certain move or a certain part of your body comes out,
[00:10:06] right? So just understanding that is huge and amazing.
[00:10:10] And that's the mind-binding connection.
[00:10:12] A really common example, if you're a yoga practitioner or, you know,
[00:10:17] you've been to yoga or you understand that a lot of times people talk
[00:10:21] about fear or emotion being held in the hips.
[00:10:23] That's something that's very common and talked about, right?
[00:10:26] So that's an example that most often people can recognize or know.
[00:10:31] So just understanding that is important, but you're right.
[00:10:33] There's so much more depth and understanding and working with it.
[00:10:36] So I'm just glad that you mentioned that because I think it's important
[00:10:40] for people to recognize that, yeah, that's very true.
[00:10:43] And it very much so happens.
[00:10:45] Yeah. And that was that was one of the places where different ways
[00:10:50] of getting into the hips, whether it was like through strengthening
[00:10:53] or opening them, that a lot of stuff would come up.
[00:10:55] I definitely saw that.
[00:10:56] And that's where, like, I love Pilates so much.
[00:10:59] Pilates is amazing.
[00:11:00] But I do think that, you know, the way that yoga trains instructors
[00:11:06] to be mindful of, you know, my body's spirit versus just the body,
[00:11:12] I think is really powerful because we're not taught that integration in Pilates.
[00:11:17] And I hope that, you know, one day changes.
[00:11:19] But, you know, because of like what I saw, you know,
[00:11:22] I personally choose yoga is not great for my body.
[00:11:25] So I didn't really get into it, but still a part of me
[00:11:29] that is interested in going through trainings because there's like trauma
[00:11:33] informed yoga and all of these things that I think are really powerful
[00:11:37] and can be integrated into other movement modalities that unfortunately aren't.
[00:11:43] Yeah, yeah, definitely.
[00:11:45] OK, so you mentioned something initially where you said that
[00:11:49] reaching out to me or starting to work together was significant
[00:11:54] in your life or time period for a certain reason.
[00:11:57] And I'm I'm actually not sure if I know this.
[00:11:59] So can you speak to that?
[00:12:01] Yeah, I'll talk more about it.
[00:12:03] But yeah, I mean, basically when I reached out to you,
[00:12:06] I was on the tail end of a really and in the midst of, honestly,
[00:12:11] a really difficult personal time.
[00:12:13] I had, honestly, for a year and a half, a lot of things
[00:12:16] went on in my personal life.
[00:12:18] So 12 years ago, I started getting really, really bad neck and jaw pain.
[00:12:23] This is going to come back to answering your question.
[00:12:26] So I went to see a dentist because of how bad my jaw was
[00:12:30] and identified specializes in TMJ and found out at that time
[00:12:36] when I opened my mouth, my lower jaw deviates to the left.
[00:12:39] And so, you know, if you know anything about joints over time,
[00:12:42] that's going to wear a joint out.
[00:12:45] I didn't think about it in that way at the time, unfortunately,
[00:12:48] but he recommended an oral appliance and I started using that.
[00:12:52] And once I did like the pain that I had been having,
[00:12:55] I had also been having really bad migraines.
[00:12:59] A lot of that went away and I really didn't think about that again
[00:13:02] until like late 2021, as I started having all of those same symptoms,
[00:13:08] but also started having a lot of difficulty in pain,
[00:13:12] eating and biting into things, talking, like I developed a lisp.
[00:13:16] And I went back to the same dentist.
[00:13:18] He made me a new appliance and things just kept getting worse
[00:13:21] to the point where like I was on a soft food and liquid diet.
[00:13:25] I developed really, really intense ear pain and ringing and buzzing in my ear.
[00:13:31] And then one day I woke up to see that I had developed an open bite.
[00:13:36] And basically what that means is that your teeth no longer make contact.
[00:13:40] And I still have that only two of my teeth touch now.
[00:13:43] But I never had had any problems with my teeth.
[00:13:46] I never had braces, though it was just such a shock.
[00:13:49] So when I went back to my dentist, he was also shocked.
[00:13:52] He said that he had never seen anything like that
[00:13:54] and immediately sent me to get an MRI at my jaw joints
[00:13:58] and also to see an oral surgeon when it turned out
[00:14:02] that one of my jaw joints had completely degenerated
[00:14:05] and the other one was close behind.
[00:14:08] It was just such a crazy, shocking thing to learn.
[00:14:12] And, you know, we always tell our clients like not to dig into Google
[00:14:17] and searching online because, and it's a helpful not to
[00:14:21] because like many things, if you read about this online,
[00:14:23] the prognosis is pretty, pretty bleak.
[00:14:27] And around this point, I really went into kind of an emotional tailspin.
[00:14:32] I was genuinely terrified of what my future held.
[00:14:35] And it was at this time I was also coming back.
[00:14:38] I had made the decision and made so many steps
[00:14:40] telling my business and, you know, getting interim jobs
[00:14:43] to come back into the mental health space and going through this
[00:14:47] I have just started seeing clients now, you know what?
[00:14:51] I don't know what's going to happen.
[00:14:53] I should probably hit pause on this.
[00:14:54] And so that was another hit to all of this.
[00:14:57] But if you think about the now, it's how we engage with the world.
[00:15:03] It's how we keep ourselves alive.
[00:15:04] It's how we connect with other people.
[00:15:06] It's directly related to our survival in every way.
[00:15:10] So I ended up seeing three different oral surgeons.
[00:15:13] All three recommended three different surgeries.
[00:15:17] All of them had potentially life altering complications
[00:15:19] with the possibility of those complications being quite high,
[00:15:23] like some up to 20 percent likelihood.
[00:15:26] You know, at the point I didn't see any other possible direction
[00:15:30] than one of these surgeries.
[00:15:31] And it just I felt like I was in this nightmare
[00:15:34] that I couldn't make up for them.
[00:15:36] But it felt like no matter what direction I went,
[00:15:38] that my life and relationships would be forever impacted.
[00:15:42] And I, you know, when I talk about this story,
[00:15:45] I'm so grateful that I kept going
[00:15:47] and getting different opinions from different surgeries
[00:15:49] because being recommended a third surgery woke me up
[00:15:52] and shook me a little bit.
[00:15:54] There was something inside of me that said like kept saying now.
[00:15:58] And I think that a big part of what I've been struggling with so much
[00:16:02] is that everything I've done as an adult
[00:16:04] embraces the body's ability to heal.
[00:16:06] And I've always leaned into natural healing.
[00:16:09] And the idea of having my skull and jaw cut apart
[00:16:12] and having artificial materials permanently
[00:16:15] not just in my body, but in my face and skull
[00:16:17] was something I just couldn't come to terms with.
[00:16:21] And that third surgical recommendation
[00:16:23] was screeching breaks on this franticness
[00:16:26] that had like truly taken over my life.
[00:16:29] And a realization, wait a minute,
[00:16:31] all of these doctors are acting
[00:16:33] like they have the solution to my problem.
[00:16:35] But how can this solution be three different things?
[00:16:39] And it was just such an pivotal point in this journey
[00:16:41] because I realized I had been chasing solutions
[00:16:44] that don't align with my values.
[00:16:45] And that's why there was such discomfort
[00:16:47] and so much anxiety in pursuing any of them.
[00:16:50] And it was at this point I started searching out a team
[00:16:53] who believed in my body's ability to heal itself.
[00:16:57] So I needed to find people who could, like first of all,
[00:17:02] help me find what caused this.
[00:17:05] Because until I could cut, they find out the cause.
[00:17:07] I can't stop the degeneration, right?
[00:17:10] Two, I needed to find people who could help me manage my symptoms.
[00:17:13] And then three, ultimately, help my body regenerate and grow bone.
[00:17:17] As I began leaning back into my values,
[00:17:20] the dysregulated state I had been living in started to settle.
[00:17:25] And when I'd experienced pain,
[00:17:27] I was able to start noticing what my thoughts were
[00:17:31] in response to pain that would come up.
[00:17:34] And so, I mean, there were so many things
[00:17:37] that I was just terrified of.
[00:17:39] And some of them were like,
[00:17:41] you're damaged, no one will love you like this.
[00:17:44] One day, you won't be able to open your mouth anymore.
[00:17:47] What if I lose my hearing one day?
[00:17:50] I began to choose other thoughts,
[00:17:52] like you are completely lovable just the way you are.
[00:17:56] I'm learning what my body needs so it can heal.
[00:17:59] One day, my joints are going to regenerate.
[00:18:02] And yeah, things are different now and it's OK.
[00:18:05] And my pain began to go down.
[00:18:07] And when I would have pain come up
[00:18:10] or my jaw make a crazy noise for days
[00:18:13] where I can't open my mouth very far for like six hours,
[00:18:17] I respond differently.
[00:18:19] I'm not scared.
[00:18:20] It's just this is where my body is right now.
[00:18:23] And this, you know, the pain going down
[00:18:26] was also coupled by working with an incredible
[00:18:29] craniosacral therapist who's helped me tremendously.
[00:18:32] But it truly was kind of all encompassing kind of approach.
[00:18:36] And, you know, there has been a lot of lessons along the way.
[00:18:40] And one that is really applicable to all of us is
[00:18:45] I don't have full control over what's happened to me physically, like at all.
[00:18:50] But what I do have control over now is what I choose to do for my health,
[00:18:53] who I work with and what I choose to think about and feel.
[00:18:57] And in choosing to think thoughts that align with hearing and trust
[00:19:01] versus fear and doomsday scenarios,
[00:19:05] my pain and symptoms no longer control me.
[00:19:07] Every time I draw used to crack,
[00:19:09] I would think that I could like literally hear the joint
[00:19:11] continuing to disintegrate and feel so discouraged and sad.
[00:19:15] And now when it cracks and is stiff,
[00:19:17] I tell myself that it's learning new pathways
[00:19:19] and where it's supposed to be in space.
[00:19:21] I'm actively choosing to lean into calm and peace,
[00:19:25] acceptance, thoughts of hearing and trust of this path that I'm on
[00:19:29] in my personal spiritual journey.
[00:19:33] Which, if you think about the connection between our brain state
[00:19:35] and how it has the potential to create disease or healing,
[00:19:39] like I, of course, don't know where this journey is going to physically lead me.
[00:19:42] But I know that mentally, emotionally and spiritually,
[00:19:46] I put my body in a much better place for healing
[00:19:50] and I'm now able to live my life.
[00:19:52] And certainly back to your question,
[00:19:55] I was kind of in the midst of all of this
[00:19:58] when I met you.
[00:20:00] I was coming out of all of this fear, emotional tailspin.
[00:20:04] I had already seen three of those surgeons and I had
[00:20:08] made the decision that, OK, I'm not going to have one of these
[00:20:11] surgeries that put me out for a year plus.
[00:20:14] And so I need, I want to get back into my life.
[00:20:16] I want to get back into living and meeting you and getting to work
[00:20:21] with Elevate and, you know, doing the work that we do was just set.
[00:20:25] It has been such a just continued gift and place of joy and continued meaning
[00:20:29] that to be able to, you know, one, work with somebody who's so
[00:20:33] amazing as you and where we, you know, align in how we look at this work,
[00:20:39] but also being able to step back into my life.
[00:20:42] And I think when you're dealing with something like this, it's so
[00:20:46] it's, of course, I think natural to kind of fall into this all-encompassing
[00:20:50] place of it takes over everything.
[00:20:52] But it's so important once you process, you know, shock, grief, denial,
[00:20:56] like all the things that you start living your life and find places of joy
[00:21:02] and, you know, laughter and fun because I could, you know, I'm still going
[00:21:07] to watch the doctor's appointments.
[00:21:08] I'm still, you know, trying to figure out, you know, what caused this,
[00:21:11] how to stop the generation, all these different pieces that I figure out.
[00:21:16] And I could still be in that cycle of just so focused on it
[00:21:19] where it was my whole life.
[00:21:20] And now it's just a piece of my life.
[00:21:22] Right. I'm focused on my friends.
[00:21:24] I'm focused on my work and, you know, focus on these different things
[00:21:28] that it doesn't, it's not controlling anymore.
[00:21:32] That last piece of it's now part of my life, not my whole life.
[00:21:37] That's huge.
[00:21:39] There's a lot of pieces I want to speak to from what you just said,
[00:21:43] but that one is huge because I mean, not only have you been
[00:21:47] able to decrease your pain and I want to know more of how what's helped
[00:21:51] you, but specifically not just only decreasing but managing it.
[00:21:55] Because when you have something, especially like this, that you truly don't know,
[00:21:59] it's not common, it's not, you know, talked about.
[00:22:02] And obviously they don't know what to do with it, but it could.
[00:22:06] And like you said, probably was taking over your life, but it doesn't have to.
[00:22:10] That's huge, huge, huge mindset, not just mindset, but really belief
[00:22:15] around the idea that it's it isn't your life and it will get better.
[00:22:19] Our mind is so infinitely powerful, our body is so powerful.
[00:22:22] And so we can give it the nutrients that it needs, which are things like
[00:22:26] talking to yourself in a different way, believing certain beliefs, right?
[00:22:29] Just like you're saying, can have a huge impact.
[00:22:31] So I'm really glad that you mentioned that.
[00:22:34] So then can you expand a little bit more on what's really helped
[00:22:39] you manage your pain and maybe it's something you've learned
[00:22:42] after going through our work or anything, really?
[00:22:46] It's been such a combination of things.
[00:22:48] You know, first of all, I'd be hard pressed not to mention, you know,
[00:22:52] like I work with the craniocycle therapist pretty much every week.
[00:22:57] She does, you know, work inside of my mouth and around the jaw joints.
[00:23:01] And that's, you know, helped me a lot.
[00:23:03] And then, like I said, shifting the way that I
[00:23:08] respond to thoughts that come up, which in the beginning,
[00:23:12] when I made that choice to shift those thoughts,
[00:23:15] it was more of it took more of a conscious effort
[00:23:19] because it's a natural reaction.
[00:23:21] It is a very natural reaction to pain and to something as, you know,
[00:23:27] honestly, scary as this to have fear response, right?
[00:23:31] But that only makes the cycle worse.
[00:23:35] It creates more pain.
[00:23:37] And I have started working on that when I met you and got, you know,
[00:23:41] introduced to this work, you know, I went through your nervous
[00:23:45] system, hope I'm saying it right, your nervous system, retraining course
[00:23:49] and my body healing program.
[00:23:51] And it reinforced in a deeper way of like, made me feel more empowered of,
[00:23:57] oh, this actually makes scientific sense.
[00:24:00] There is a direct connection between fear and pain.
[00:24:02] So if I choose to respond to my fear differently, both in my thoughts
[00:24:06] and then also the way that I ensued my body when that fear pops,
[00:24:11] then I can really shift this.
[00:24:13] So it was kind of a combination, honestly, but I definitely started
[00:24:17] incorporating more body-based practices after meeting you.
[00:24:21] I had been more focused on the mental side.
[00:24:25] I often said, oh, my gosh, everything I've gone through with my personal
[00:24:28] mental health journey, I feel like it's prepared me to be able to handle
[00:24:31] this because I've completely changed the way that I think before.
[00:24:36] And so I was like, I can do it again with this.
[00:24:39] And I don't have to let this control me.
[00:24:44] And so, yeah, it was a, it was a combination of things.
[00:24:46] And, you know, I would say you and I have talked a lot about this,
[00:24:51] but, you know, breath is one of the quickest and most accessible
[00:24:55] ways to regulate your nervous system.
[00:24:57] And that was really where I started.
[00:24:59] My tougher days are really less and less.
[00:25:02] Now I'm so grateful for that, where I get very dysregulated
[00:25:05] because of the symptoms.
[00:25:06] But, you know, some of the things that I would do is lay on the ground
[00:25:10] and put my eyes and let myself kind of settle, kind of like different bouncing.
[00:25:13] I started taking more walks and you really inspired me with that.
[00:25:18] So just a variety of things and just kind of like trying to be in nature.
[00:25:22] You mentioned a little bit earlier that, you know, the jaw and the mouth.
[00:25:28] You're right, has so much to do with us connecting with the world
[00:25:32] and how we communicate, right?
[00:25:34] And so there's, I would imagine there's a lot of belief systems
[00:25:37] that I think you mentioned, too, you're you're working on shifting,
[00:25:41] which is something I think that kind of like we were saying before,
[00:25:45] there's, you know, fear stored in the hips.
[00:25:47] And so when you have certain pain associated with certain
[00:25:50] different parts of your body, there are deeper meanings behind that.
[00:25:53] Have you been working with belief systems around, you know,
[00:25:56] how you communicate, how you what your jaw and your mouth means with the world?
[00:26:03] OK, I love this question.
[00:26:06] I love this question.
[00:26:07] Yes, you know, I work with my craniosacral
[00:26:10] therapists again, incorporates a little bit of like spirituality.
[00:26:13] And then my family and I have also worked with to kind of like,
[00:26:18] I never know what to call them, but like more spiritually inclined
[00:26:21] practitioners and all three of them were told me that basically,
[00:26:28] like, I've trained myself to not speak my truth and not, you know,
[00:26:35] that's like such an old thing, right?
[00:26:36] From very, it's a very young thing and to not speak up essentially.
[00:26:41] And I had already worked a lot on that and I was like, wow,
[00:26:47] this is crazy that this is coming up.
[00:26:50] And so honestly, it's been that has been something I've been so much
[00:26:55] more conscious of, like over the last year of there are things in my,
[00:27:01] like, gosh, personally in professional life that, like, probably in the past,
[00:27:06] I wouldn't have said or communicated because, like, I'm such a peacekeeper,
[00:27:12] but I'm like so much more intentional now, like, hey,
[00:27:15] if something comes up for me, like, I'm not going to keep this inside anymore,
[00:27:19] like, because my body, like, if that's the spiritual lesson
[00:27:23] that, like, I'm supposed to learn from this,
[00:27:25] like, I'm going to learn it, I'm going to communicate the things that I have to say.
[00:27:31] So yeah, that's a great question.
[00:27:33] I a lot of people don't, you know, think about the body in those ways.
[00:27:37] Right. I know one's asked me that.
[00:27:41] Yeah, it's I'm it's like you said, I've gone to more holistically
[00:27:46] or spiritually inclined practitioners for a while as well.
[00:27:48] And so I've learned different things from myself around that
[00:27:51] in different illnesses and parts of my body and, you know,
[00:27:55] pain associated with certain beliefs.
[00:27:56] And so it's something I'm learning for myself over the years.
[00:27:59] And then I wanted to incorporate more into our program.
[00:28:01] And so I think that it's important to acknowledge
[00:28:03] because it has such an important aspect to to our healing process.
[00:28:08] Whenever we have pain, we have, I mean, it goes so many layers deep,
[00:28:14] which is what we're trying to teach people, right?
[00:28:16] Not only that we need to learn how to emotionally express
[00:28:19] and and tune into the mind and body,
[00:28:21] but the beliefs are sometimes so at the core.
[00:28:26] And so it doesn't mean that it's that's the exact reason
[00:28:29] why you're having these issues, right?
[00:28:31] It's not a not at all or not.
[00:28:32] It's not just one reason like we've talked about all the time.
[00:28:35] It's not just one.
[00:28:36] There's many reasons why things happen.
[00:28:38] But I think it's a really important one.
[00:28:40] Yeah. Can I share something else that just came up related to it?
[00:28:44] So when it's first.
[00:28:46] So I took an intuitive painting class,
[00:28:50] intuitive painting class many years ago as a very big part
[00:28:54] of my personal healing journey.
[00:28:56] And one of the first things that came up for me
[00:28:59] that nobody has seen this painting.
[00:29:02] And I've only told one person about it.
[00:29:05] And it's one of the spiritual people.
[00:29:07] So living share.
[00:29:10] But it was a very, very, very dark piece.
[00:29:13] And it was a very angry piece.
[00:29:17] It was a very sad piece, a lot of grief.
[00:29:19] And it was a big, ginormous picture of my face.
[00:29:25] And it was like a lot of black and a lot of black and red tears.
[00:29:29] And I painted like like a mask on my face.
[00:29:34] Like, you know, those masks that are on like robots
[00:29:38] where it's like it was like a metal mask
[00:29:42] that went all the way around my head and there were screws
[00:29:47] like all the way around my mouth holding the mask in place.
[00:29:50] And the grief and anger around that painting
[00:29:55] like was about that mass.
[00:29:57] And when I first had this brought up to me,
[00:30:01] that was the picture that came to my head.
[00:30:03] I was like, wow, this is like a big one for me where
[00:30:08] yeah, you're right.
[00:30:08] Like we can't say that that's like why this happened.
[00:30:12] Right. But I think that, you know, spiritually and personally,
[00:30:16] that's, you know, a big lesson for me in this life is to, you know, speak my truth.
[00:30:22] So.
[00:30:24] Wow, thank you for sharing that.
[00:30:25] That's really fun.
[00:30:28] Art therapy, any type of creative therapies, huge.
[00:30:31] It shows us a lot that we don't recognize what's underneath the surface.
[00:30:35] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:30:37] So you've talked a lot about your history with your job pain
[00:30:43] and all of your healing around that.
[00:30:46] And I know because we've talked about before that you've had a history of migraines
[00:30:50] as well. Do you have that a little bit specifically what I'm wondering about?
[00:30:55] Or what I want people to know is the connection you made
[00:30:58] between your emotions and your migraines.
[00:31:00] I think that's really powerful.
[00:31:02] Yeah, definitely.
[00:31:03] Yeah. So there were, you know, some physical connections, obviously,
[00:31:07] like jaw and migraines are very connected.
[00:31:09] But as my pain decreased and my migraines became less and less,
[00:31:14] I started noticing just a really fascinating connection between anger
[00:31:21] and when I would have a migraine and like, what a great follow up
[00:31:24] to the previous conversation about my difficulty in expressing myself
[00:31:27] because anger is a big thing that I really struggle with.
[00:31:31] I've really struggled my whole life of expressing it.
[00:31:34] Honestly, like, sometimes I don't even know that I'm angry.
[00:31:37] And it just kind of like sits inside or if I do know I'm angry,
[00:31:41] it's difficult for me to know how to express it in a healthy and useful way.
[00:31:45] And so what I started noticing is that when I would be really angry
[00:31:49] about something, I would wake up the next day with a migraine
[00:31:53] and so crazy to recognize and so shocking.
[00:31:57] But I I do think that when I say this to clients,
[00:32:01] like, I think physical symptoms like this
[00:32:04] that have like a direct correlation to an emotion like are really such gifts
[00:32:08] because it's something that we're not able to for whatever reason,
[00:32:13] like see clearly or understand clearly or be with clearly.
[00:32:17] And our body is just so brilliant.
[00:32:20] Like it helps us.
[00:32:22] It communicates this lesson we need or that something's off
[00:32:26] that we need to address, something we need to work on,
[00:32:29] something we need to grow on grow in.
[00:32:31] And so, yeah, like with migraines,
[00:32:34] I'm I'm learning that when I feel angry,
[00:32:37] like to really like try to like lean into it, feel it, express it,
[00:32:43] whether that's, you know, privately or, you know, if it's with somebody else,
[00:32:48] obviously, you know, communicate in an appropriate way to like really be
[00:32:51] able to move through my anger because my body, you know,
[00:32:54] my personal beliefs like my body was asking me to do that work.
[00:32:59] Wow, that's so powerful.
[00:33:01] I mean, I remember when you actually mentioned it or you guys did before,
[00:33:05] right, but I think there was a big awful offer you when you had a migraine one
[00:33:08] day and you recognize there was so much anger building up the few days before.
[00:33:13] And it's huge.
[00:33:13] And we can't always recognize the immediate connection.
[00:33:17] But they're mostly and I will say this actually specifically for migraines.
[00:33:21] So if you're listening and you struggle with that,
[00:33:24] there usually is a pretty strong some type of like repressed
[00:33:28] emotional component to that.
[00:33:30] I know myself, I mean, I recognize my pattern with really high fatigue
[00:33:35] and brain fog will be like fear and shame.
[00:33:37] That's my indicator where that will be building up for a while
[00:33:41] and I'll have a bit of a crash.
[00:33:43] So there really can be these links, like you said, are messengers, right?
[00:33:47] They're messengers.
[00:33:48] Our symptoms are our, it's our body's way of speaking to us
[00:33:52] and sharing what's going on or telling us that there's something wrong
[00:33:55] or something we need to look at or express more of
[00:33:58] or, you know, something is that message.
[00:34:01] And so I think that's really powerful to have examples of how that can happen
[00:34:06] so that people can learn how to recognize that in themselves.
[00:34:09] So thank you.
[00:34:10] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:34:12] Yeah. OK, so you've shared your journey
[00:34:16] and just amazing tools and and connections that you've made.
[00:34:20] So along your process, not only just personally,
[00:34:23] but now professionally, what do you what do you think you want people
[00:34:27] to know about mind body therapy that maybe speaking to someone
[00:34:31] who's just getting into it or recognizing that there's that connection?
[00:34:35] What's important? Yeah.
[00:34:37] Yeah, I mean, you know, we live in a culture that's constantly on the go.
[00:34:41] It's such a high value on high stress and busyness
[00:34:46] and making people feel guilty for resting.
[00:34:49] And I think another thing that contributes is, you know,
[00:34:53] families are on the decline and many people grow up in an environment
[00:34:57] where they just don't feel safe.
[00:34:58] And that doesn't mean, you know, just like physically unsafe,
[00:35:03] but it means like the child's told you're too much, too sensitive.
[00:35:06] You're not allowed to make mistakes or express emotions.
[00:35:09] All of these things lead to feeling unsafe,
[00:35:13] ultimately in your body, which creates this regulation.
[00:35:16] And so traditional talk therapy is missing a really important
[00:35:21] and big component of healing because there's only so far we can go with the mind
[00:35:26] when our body is like constantly and it's been taught that from the youngest of ages,
[00:35:31] constantly getting hijacked or constantly in a place and shut down.
[00:35:34] And mind body therapy really works with both the brain and the body
[00:35:39] so that you can learn to begin feeling safe or
[00:35:43] address the things that you may be holding in the body
[00:35:47] that we wouldn't be able to access through typical talk therapy.
[00:35:51] Yeah, that's an important distinction and recognition that,
[00:35:56] yes, traditional talk therapy is amazing.
[00:35:58] And obviously what we're trained in, but yeah, there's more.
[00:36:01] There's a different component to it.
[00:36:03] There's a body component to healing, especially obviously
[00:36:06] when we're working with chronic symptoms, physical symptoms.
[00:36:09] We need that mind body connection.
[00:36:11] So then how do you work with clients that are specific to healing the mind and body?
[00:36:18] Yeah, from a really high level, there's three steps in how I approach this work.
[00:36:24] Many of our clients are experienced a lot of anxiety,
[00:36:28] which is a dysregulated state.
[00:36:30] And so when clients first come to therapy,
[00:36:35] a lot of times their actions and thoughts will vary out of their control.
[00:36:38] So the first thing, well, it may sound really simple,
[00:36:41] but that's learning to pay attention, learning to notice your internal state,
[00:36:46] not from a critical place, but from truly like, oh, when this happens,
[00:36:49] I get really panicky.
[00:36:51] Or when someone says this, I shut down and pull away.
[00:36:54] And then I layer in, OK, so when that happens,
[00:36:57] what are the physical sensations that come up in your body?
[00:37:00] What are the emotions you feel around this?
[00:37:02] And truly helping clients become familiar with someone's
[00:37:06] internal, their internal state is the first step, typically.
[00:37:10] Anxiety is all about fear.
[00:37:12] And so what I often say fear is the ultimate liar.
[00:37:17] And so the next step in working is bringing in facts.
[00:37:21] OK, so if somebody is terrified of leaving their home,
[00:37:24] I would want to understand what fears are driving that
[00:37:27] so we can begin focusing on what is actually true about leaving home.
[00:37:32] The truth is there's very little that is actually dangerous
[00:37:35] if somebody in Austin, Texas walks outside and goes to the grocery store,
[00:37:39] for example, are there other things that could happen?
[00:37:42] Yes, of course, but the likelihood is just so, so low.
[00:37:46] And so we talk about that.
[00:37:48] And at the same time, we want to approach the dysregulation
[00:37:51] and fear that comes up in the body and nervous system,
[00:37:54] because if your heart is racing and you're sweating and you're physically
[00:37:57] dysregulated, no amount of things you say are really going to address that.
[00:38:02] So while we bring in factual information,
[00:38:05] I also teach clients to learn to soothe their body.
[00:38:08] And like I mentioned earlier, the most basic and quick way to do that is through your breath.
[00:38:14] And there's other techniques that I bring in,
[00:38:16] but that's really the most accessible way.
[00:38:19] And that's kind of like from a very high level,
[00:38:22] how I tend to approach, especially the beginning of therapy.
[00:38:26] That's really helpful because you gave some concrete examples, right?
[00:38:30] So examples of storytelling is how we learn.
[00:38:33] So thank you for that.
[00:38:34] Do you have an example of maybe one or two clients that you've worked with
[00:38:38] that have made some progress using this approach so we can see it?
[00:38:42] Yeah, an amazing client story.
[00:38:46] It was really incredible.
[00:38:47] I started working with me because of chronic GI pain.
[00:38:51] And through techniques we did in our first session,
[00:38:54] the pain went away and has never come back.
[00:38:58] And so that's enabled us to begin working on a lot of other things in their life.
[00:39:03] They had also developed a lot of fear around leaving the house after COVID
[00:39:08] and within a couple of sessions started going out again
[00:39:12] and doing things and building back up for their social life.
[00:39:15] There was also a lot of rigidity around you need to have a set routine every day.
[00:39:20] And that's also shifted.
[00:39:22] We've worked a lot on releasing the need for like perfectionism
[00:39:27] control and really learning to lean into their intuitive self.
[00:39:31] And so, yeah, it's been really fun to see because as these things are released,
[00:39:36] they're now exploring how to have more joy in life
[00:39:39] because they're no longer hyper fixated on all these rules and fears
[00:39:43] that were truly dominating.
[00:39:45] They no longer have these intense physical symptoms
[00:39:50] that were creating more stress, anxiety and pain, right?
[00:39:54] All of that's gone.
[00:39:55] And so now they're enjoying life more and able to explore dreams
[00:39:59] that they've never been able to recognize before
[00:40:02] because so much fear and anxiety was controlling their life.
[00:40:07] So for G.I., we mean gastrointestinal, right?
[00:40:09] So gut issues, pain and which really, I mean, there's so much meaning
[00:40:17] energy to gut that we can go into for sure.
[00:40:19] But that's a whole other episode.
[00:40:20] And so it sounds like there was a progression, right?
[00:40:23] So there's a progression just just being with and working through
[00:40:27] the immediate symptoms that were coming up and then looking at
[00:40:30] what's affecting their life and making lifestyle shifts
[00:40:33] and changes throughout this work. Is that right?
[00:40:35] Yes, that's exactly what we did.
[00:40:38] OK, cool. Yeah.
[00:40:41] Anything else around this, around mind body therapy
[00:40:43] or this client progress that you think is important to know?
[00:40:47] Just so people understand more of what we do.
[00:40:51] Yeah, so I had another client who started therapy
[00:40:54] because she was having a lot of just like physical aches and pains
[00:40:59] and feeling just completely worn out by like two, three o'clock in the afternoon.
[00:41:04] And she really wants to have babies and she was terrified
[00:41:08] because she didn't think she'd be able to have a baby
[00:41:10] because of how exhausted and bad she was feeling before before that.
[00:41:16] And within like four to six weeks of working together,
[00:41:20] she learned how to listen to her internal cues
[00:41:25] and learn to take care of her body and shift things
[00:41:29] that she was thinking about and attend to her nervous system.
[00:41:33] And the physical symptoms subsided as she learned
[00:41:37] to take care of herself in this way.
[00:41:39] And we did a lot of work on looking to her intuitive self versus the fear.
[00:41:45] And she's no longer scared of becoming a mom and wondering
[00:41:48] how she'll have energy.
[00:41:49] But now she's excited about her future and having children
[00:41:54] actually seems like an option for her again, which is really exciting.
[00:41:57] I have so many clients who's, you know, when they first start,
[00:42:01] their lives are just really ruled a lot of anxiety and rumination.
[00:42:05] And really, it's pretty incredible because within like two or three months,
[00:42:10] they're really able to move through that and recognize it
[00:42:14] when it comes up and change their response to the fear that comes up
[00:42:21] and develop tools to feel safer in their body and ultimately rewire their brain
[00:42:27] and the way that their body responds to stress and overwhelm.
[00:42:31] Wow.
[00:42:32] And don't you just love this work as you're talking?
[00:42:35] Just like, this is so cool.
[00:42:39] I know it's I love it.
[00:42:42] I feel so lucky and grateful to be able to do this
[00:42:45] because it's just such a gift to be a part of clients' journeys like this.
[00:42:50] I know, right?
[00:42:51] I mean, after doing this, well, actually not even just this work,
[00:42:55] but therapy in general, I think that after a while, I became just used to it.
[00:42:59] But recently, I've really, especially doing this type of specific mind body work,
[00:43:04] I've really just leaned into how amazing this is
[00:43:10] and how much of it is privileged to be able to sit with and be with clients
[00:43:15] and people on their journeys.
[00:43:16] And to hear yours is really amazing, to be honest.
[00:43:19] So thank you so much for for sharing and being willing to go there with us.
[00:43:24] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:43:25] Thank you for inviting me to talk about it.
[00:43:27] I I'm more and more want to share it with people
[00:43:30] because I hope that you're sharing our stories.
[00:43:33] I think we can all learn and hopefully grow from each other.
[00:43:36] So yeah, thank you for the opportunity to talk about it.
[00:43:39] Yeah, definitely.
[00:43:40] We definitely learn through sharing and experiences and and hearing others make
[00:43:45] progress helps us find hope as well.
[00:43:47] So I think sharing is really important.
[00:43:50] So thank you. Yeah. Yeah, you're welcome.
[00:43:53] Two last questions.
[00:43:54] One, I kind of asked this already, but not specific to clients.
[00:43:59] Is there anything else that you feel is important to share about either
[00:44:03] your journey or just you as a therapist?
[00:44:06] Yeah, I think if there's one thing from my journey that I shared in particular,
[00:44:11] it's that life is going to happen.
[00:44:15] It's impossible to avoid hard things.
[00:44:17] None of us go through life untouched and think no attempt at controlling
[00:44:22] every outcome is going to change what will be.
[00:44:25] But what we can control is how we show up in the world
[00:44:29] and how we respond when life deals as a difficult situation.
[00:44:32] And one of the things I talk with clients about a lot is the importance
[00:44:37] of stepping back from our fear of what may come and into the truth of the present moment.
[00:44:42] And so using my jaw situation, for example, right now,
[00:44:46] like I figured out how to eat for the most part, I can open my mouth,
[00:44:50] I can talk, I can smile, I can laugh.
[00:44:52] I'm functional, right?
[00:44:53] And my pain and discomfort are manageable.
[00:44:55] And I don't know if that would be the case
[00:44:58] if I were still constantly scared of what this journey might bring.
[00:45:01] And regardless, it would certainly take away my ability to be present
[00:45:05] and enjoy my life today with what I still have and can still do.
[00:45:10] And we have to step back into the present moment
[00:45:14] where fears are just that they're fears.
[00:45:17] They are not happening today.
[00:45:20] They are not happening in this moment.
[00:45:21] And sometimes we have to hit pause and begin
[00:45:25] focusing on what we want and envision that being true today.
[00:45:31] In order to emotionally be able to step into another place.
[00:45:34] And again, I'm not talking about avoiding emotions that come up with difficult things.
[00:45:39] Saying we cannot stay there.
[00:45:41] We truly can choose how we want to experience life today.
[00:45:45] And if that doesn't feel like that's in your control,
[00:45:48] then I hope that anyone listening will use this as a cue to find someone to work with
[00:45:53] so you can heal the areas that are holding you back from feeling
[00:45:56] as if your experience of life is within your control
[00:46:00] because it truly truly is.
[00:46:04] Thank you for that.
[00:46:05] That is really powerful because we can we can shift.
[00:46:08] We can shift our thoughts or realities, but we often need to work in doing so.
[00:46:13] For sure. Yeah.
[00:46:14] OK, one question that I ask everyone on here.
[00:46:18] What are you enjoying most right now and your wellness lifestyle journey?
[00:46:23] Yeah, it's so hard to pick one.
[00:46:25] But right now I'm loving cooking.
[00:46:28] I kind of gone ways with it, but I've just been loving it lately.
[00:46:32] It's like so fine to find yummy, nutritious recipes
[00:46:36] and preparing them just feels like such a loving act towards myself.
[00:46:41] I also love movement, you know this.
[00:46:44] And I'd be hard for us not to mention my love for Tracy Anderson method
[00:46:47] because it's just like the perfect mix of charge and softness,
[00:46:51] which I think is, you know, applicable to the way that we work.
[00:46:54] It's just a really mindful, spiritual and primal way of moving.
[00:46:58] And I've also been doing my best to take a little walk every day,
[00:47:02] even if it's just getting out and just walking around the block.
[00:47:05] There's something really nice about just getting some fresh air
[00:47:08] and hearing the birds chirp that really feeds my soul.
[00:47:13] I love that. Thank you for sharing now.
[00:47:16] OK, well, this is wonderful.
[00:47:19] And we're definitely going to have you back.
[00:47:21] So Leanna and I are going to be doing some upcoming episodes together
[00:47:26] so that you can get her wonderful words and inspiration
[00:47:29] and we can share and talk about our work together.
[00:47:32] And also, if you are listening to this
[00:47:35] and feel called to ask for support,
[00:47:38] you can find the links below in the show notes
[00:47:41] to schedule a initial call with Leanna
[00:47:44] to see if it would work well for you, if y'all would work well together.
[00:47:48] And we work with anyone on nervous system, coaching, mind, body,
[00:47:51] coaching anywhere, and then if you live in Texas,
[00:47:54] you can have Leanna as your therapist.
[00:47:57] So find that below and we'll link that information.
[00:48:02] Thank you so much for showing up and listening.
[00:48:05] And thank you, Leanna, again, for sharing your story.
[00:48:09] And thank you again so much, Grace, for having me.
[00:48:13] If this podcast means something to you,
[00:48:15] it would mean so much to me if you could do these couple things.
[00:48:18] One, go to the Heal With Grace Show page wherever you listen
[00:48:21] and tap the plus sign or click on the follow button
[00:48:24] so you don't miss an episode.
[00:48:26] It helps both of us out.
[00:48:27] While you're there, if you could give a five star review
[00:48:30] so that this podcast can reach more people,
[00:48:33] it would mean so much to me.
[00:48:35] So I can continue sharing episodes that help you as well as others.
[00:48:39] Thanks for listening and I hope this brings you hope on your journey.