Navigating a Higher Needs Nervous System with Christie Uipi

[00:00:00] Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Heel with Grace podcast. How's everybody doing? How's your summer going?
[00:00:08] What's happening?
[00:00:10] I'm really excited for today's episode. I know I say that a lot, but I I really am I only
[00:00:16] I really only have the guests on here that I truly know are going to expand and help you and
[00:00:23] Speak to this work and a different way that I can because I don't know everything surprise surprise
[00:00:30] Anyway, I have Christy Weeby who is a psychotherapist and health coach
[00:00:35] She is the executive director of the Better Mind Center and a psychotherapist specializing in the treatment of chronic pain
[00:00:42] anxiety and depression
[00:00:44] Christy is also a recovered chronic pain patient herself
[00:00:48] The healing process was so profoundly transform
[00:00:51] Transformational for her quality of life that she has dedicated her career to supporting others through their recoveries
[00:00:58] She lectures nationally on psychotherapeutic interventions to treat chronic pain and is committed to cross-disciplinary
[00:01:06] collaboration between mental health and physical medicine
[00:01:09] Christy worked alongside Alan Gordon and Dr. Howard Schuberner to develop pain reprocessing therapy
[00:01:16] Which if you don't know that that is the original
[00:01:20] nervous system pain
[00:01:22] chronic pain
[00:01:24] I'm excited to have her actually heard Christy speak at one of our conferences last year. So
[00:01:31] Long story short, I'm excited to have her here and without further ado. Here we go
[00:01:37] Hey there and welcome to heal with grace. I'm your host grace secker and I'm a holistic licensed therapist and nervous system coach
[00:01:44] Who believes that the chronic and often unseen symptoms you're living with are a sign of something deeper going on
[00:01:50] Assign that your nervous system needs attention
[00:01:53] In each episode, I'll share the science behind the most common chronic health disorders
[00:01:58] Plastic holistic health tips using mental physical and spiritual practices
[00:02:02] You'll hear what I've learned in my journey and the true stories from our trusted guests
[00:02:06] So you can feel less alone in your experience and give yourself grace no matter what you're going through
[00:02:12] So without further ado settle in and get cozy. It's time to heal with grace
[00:02:16] Hello Christy. Thank you so so so so much for coming on. I'm really excited for today's conversation. Me too. Thank you for having me
[00:02:23] It's great to see you again. Yeah, you too. I think that yeah, I came up to you actually at the
[00:02:29] Ppda conference last year because I heard you speak and I was like I need to have her on the podcast. So
[00:02:35] We are doing it now and um, why don't you just get us started with telling people
[00:02:41] Who you are what you do how you came into this work? I would be happy to so my name is Christy. We pee
[00:02:46] I'm a psychotherapist and the founder of the better mind center
[00:02:49] Which is a team of clinicians who I love who all work in the field of mind-body medicine
[00:02:55] So I'm similar to you. I work all day with folks one-on-one who are experiencing chronic symptoms of some sort
[00:03:02] that are neuroplastic in nature to some degree and
[00:03:05] I got into this work after healing from
[00:03:08] Every symptom in the book myself
[00:03:10] I feel like I'm really up there in terms of there's a few of us who are like tallying up quite a few symptoms
[00:03:17] I'm really up there in the dozens of having experienced quite a few from head to toe
[00:03:22] So I healed from this work
[00:03:24] Coming from mainstream medicine that did absolutely nothing for me and when I learned about
[00:03:29] The world of mind-body medicine and the power of our brains change the quality of my life so much
[00:03:35] That I really can't imagine specializing in anything else
[00:03:39] So this this is where I'm at. I'm parked in this lane for the foreseeable future for sure
[00:03:46] Yeah, let's actually okay, so we're talking about a higher needs nervous system on this episode
[00:03:51] But I want to talk a little bit more about what you just said
[00:03:55] Of all the different symptoms because I feel like I'm very much so in that same camp as well
[00:04:02] And
[00:04:04] What does that mean to people because I have I don't know about you but I have a lot of people that come to me
[00:04:08] They're like, is this neuroplastic is that neuroplastic or or they don't even use the term, right?
[00:04:12] They're just like, what is this is this nervous system base? That's usually what they say
[00:04:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah, so what do you mean by having all different kinds of symptoms?
[00:04:19] Oh, I think what it means to me is that I have a lot of different symptoms
[00:04:23] I think what it means to the person depends on where they are in the process
[00:04:27] So for me just literally to describe what I mean
[00:04:31] I had many different pain and other symptoms
[00:04:36] That occurred over the course of many years and also that stack simultaneously
[00:04:40] So at any given time I might have had pain in my hamstring my both my wrists side of my neck headache vertigo and
[00:04:49] nausea for example
[00:04:51] And for me all of those sensations were coming from the same place
[00:04:55] with my brain learned neural pathways or
[00:04:58] Like the language that you're using nervous system base
[00:05:02] What that means at any given time depends on
[00:05:05] Where someone is coming from the education that they have in the lens through which they're seeing their symptoms is
[00:05:10] Prior to learning about the world of nervous system healing
[00:05:15] I had a different doctor for every one of those symptoms
[00:05:18] So I had a doctor for my hamstring and a doctor for my vertigo and then someone managing the medication for all of these various symptoms
[00:05:26] And none of it helped so each appointment. I went to made me feel sicker and sicker
[00:05:31] Like Humpty Dumpty all of these doctors and I went to doctors on both coasts because I live in los angeles
[00:05:37] I'm from new england and I went to every imaginable
[00:05:40] Practitioner in both locations like flying back and forward trying to find the best care
[00:05:45] If you have that many providers and not many symptoms and not many medications and none of them are making you feel better
[00:05:52] Probably a clue that we're missing a link
[00:05:55] So there was a such a transition and I'm sure you maybe you've experienced this or you've seen this in the work that you do
[00:06:00] With your clients are such a transition to recognizing
[00:06:03] I don't have 20 I have 20 distinct sensations in my body
[00:06:08] But I don't have 20 distinct
[00:06:10] causes
[00:06:11] Of sensation or 20 distinct problems. I have this one centralized issue
[00:06:16] And that for me and again, I think it depends on where like where someone's coming from and
[00:06:21] The ones to which they're seeing their symptoms, but that was the most relieving thing in the world. Like, oh my gosh
[00:06:25] I only need to do this one thing. It's a hard process. Don't get me wrong
[00:06:29] But it's streamlines and that was very freeing for me
[00:06:33] Yeah, it can be it can be I mean at least
[00:06:36] In my experience with my journey
[00:06:38] I didn't connect those dots. I dealt with dealt with like manage the pain aspect
[00:06:44] Using curable using prt. And then I was like, oh cool. I'm good a few years later other symptoms popped up
[00:06:49] And I didn't connect the dots right off. Oh interesting. I didn't realize it
[00:06:53] Until a little bit later and I was like, oh
[00:06:56] Okay, all right. All right. I guess it's wild the scope
[00:07:00] You have sensations and symptoms that would make sense to me and I'm not sure the order in which I'm familiar with some of your
[00:07:05] Sorry and like the I can think of the list of symptoms in my head. I'm not sure the order in which you experience them
[00:07:10] But it can be a little mind-boggling that something like itching or pelvic pain or dizziness
[00:07:18] Is all the same
[00:07:20] It feels too simple for someone who's really experiencing excruciating symptoms
[00:07:24] I on the flip side of it being really relieving and freeing another thing
[00:07:28] I've heard is this pushback of that's too simple
[00:07:32] I'm experiencing too much pain for all to be one thing
[00:07:36] It's also can be scary because it
[00:07:39] Can feel in the beginning like oh, then
[00:07:41] I have to do all this to change it
[00:07:44] Yeah, it can also feel like oh cool. I can but also there's this element of like that's really big and scary and
[00:07:50] What?
[00:07:51] Yes, right. And where do I start and how am I starting over this many years in?
[00:07:57] Yeah, yeah, okay
[00:07:59] So then let's go into what we're talking about because this is a great segue
[00:08:02] Like what does it mean to have a higher needs nervous system in regards to everything we're talking about all the symptoms
[00:08:08] I'm excited to be talking about this with you
[00:08:10] because I can't think of this is something I've
[00:08:14] On intra personally with myself
[00:08:16] Thought through and worked on or talked about with my own therapist
[00:08:19] But I haven't gotten a chance to talk about it with another practitioner in the field
[00:08:23] So I'm actually really excited to see what similarities we might have but for me
[00:08:29] Having a higher needs nervous system or another way of saying this might be having a sensitive nervous system
[00:08:35] Means that on the bell curve and I'm putting myself in this category in a lot of us to experience chronic symptoms
[00:08:41] Probably would put themselves in the same boat on the bell curve
[00:08:44] Our nervous systems ask for more to recover. They need more to feel good
[00:08:52] And they experience greater intensity from lower levels of stimulation
[00:08:58] than perhaps whatever the average is on whatever bell curve I'm referencing
[00:09:03] And
[00:09:04] Both for me and for people that I've worked with I think this can be a point of confusion and sometimes a point of contention
[00:09:12] I've had many clients ask me and sometimes
[00:09:16] State with a lot of frustration. How do I make my nervous system less?
[00:09:21] Sensitive I'm tired of it needing so my we can maybe at some point talk about what it might need but things like
[00:09:28] rest or emotional expression or time out or space
[00:09:32] I don't want it to need all of this all the time
[00:09:37] And so there's this funny
[00:09:39] Place in the middle where I think we have some choice points to make around what we accept
[00:09:45] about the sensitivity of our nervous system what we lean into and appreciate
[00:09:50] As this is who I am and how I am and there's some strengths to be found from it
[00:09:56] versus
[00:09:57] I feel limited by the way is that my nervous system is sensitive and there are some changes that I want to make
[00:10:03] to
[00:10:04] increase my threshold of of stress or stimulation
[00:10:09] and
[00:10:09] Plot just thought it would be a fun conversation to have in terms of
[00:10:12] What does it mean to have a sensitive nervous system or a higher needs nervous system?
[00:10:16] And then how much of that do we embrace versus how much of that is worth shifting?
[00:10:21] It definitely is a conversation that I've had with myself and reflected on many times because I very much so resonate with that
[00:10:28] like I've always always been a sensitive person sensitive nervous system
[00:10:35] And I really do think there is
[00:10:38] There's a point where we can say yes, that's 100 something you can work on you don't have to live in a bubble essentially
[00:10:44] You don't have to be
[00:10:45] Doing these things all the time
[00:10:48] To just live to just daily live right and at the same time. Yeah, what do we?
[00:10:54] Acknowledge as actually sometimes what I like to call a superpower
[00:10:58] And what we can really grab on to and be appreciative of that can take a little bit to get to
[00:11:04] But I also think it's person-specific, but I think yeah, let's talk about okay
[00:11:09] What do you what do you see is that choice point to where we look at it?
[00:11:13] And we're like this is something we can work with for sure. We don't have to be
[00:11:17] So tied in tuned in all the time. Yes
[00:11:20] The words that come to mind when I think of these two different camps of what do we want to embrace versus?
[00:11:26] What do we potentially want to shift or change?
[00:11:28] our
[00:11:29] container
[00:11:31] versus limitation like if
[00:11:35] I have a positive relationship to the word container like the idea of being contained feels really good to me
[00:11:39] So if there are ways that I am taking care of my nervous system that feel like it's helping me stay contained
[00:11:46] That's something that I've developed a positive relationship with
[00:11:50] On the flip side if there are things about my nervous system that make me feel like I'm limited
[00:11:54] Or feel like limitations on ways I want to interact with myself with people around me with a world around me
[00:12:00] Then that feels like it's worth
[00:12:03] Challenging and it might help and I feel like we probably both have specifics on both
[00:12:08] Sides of things which might make it help feel might which might make it feel clearer to listeners, but that's
[00:12:14] my general framework is if it's feeling containing and grounding and helpful
[00:12:19] Then my sensitivity is not something that I am trying to shift
[00:12:23] Yeah, okay. So what are some of those things that might be helpful for you that you wouldn't shift
[00:12:27] So first just to take a step back and to own it for myself my baseline level of sensitivity is
[00:12:34] Kind of high like I can't listen to music and have someone talk to me at the same time
[00:12:40] Or if I'm driving it's like I need to turn down the music to see where I'm going
[00:12:44] I can't have that much input as one example
[00:12:48] I can't stack quite as many sessions for doing one-on-one work with clients
[00:12:54] I have compared to other practitioners that I've talked to
[00:12:58] I need to take more breaks to decompress my body so that I can be present for the next client
[00:13:05] Like I've talked to people who have seen six people in a row and it doesn't have much of an impact on their body
[00:13:10] If I did that I would implode
[00:13:13] I would
[00:13:14] Not have enough time
[00:13:16] To bring my nervous system back down like it's like it's like a sponge
[00:13:21] My nervous system feels like a sponge and it can soak things up
[00:13:24] So that's another example of it. I when I wake up in the morning, I can't um
[00:13:30] Immediately dive into whatever the task is
[00:13:33] So if I have to wake up and get ready for work or I have to wake up and
[00:13:37] Rally my kids for school
[00:13:39] I need some time by myself with lower stimulation
[00:13:43] While my brain is in that sensitive morning place prior to
[00:13:48] Doing any of those tasks. So I could probably think of a hundred things that are specific to me
[00:13:53] That are indications of having a sensitive nervous system and
[00:13:58] That don't feel like limits to me
[00:14:02] Those things feel like
[00:14:04] Ways of taking care of myself
[00:14:07] That i'm not willing
[00:14:09] To part with I just came back from a trip a family trip. I had a bunch of them from a family trip
[00:14:13] It comes up um a lot when I am traveling. I can't I need a space
[00:14:19] Of my own doesn't need to be a whole room
[00:14:21] It doesn't need like it doesn't need to be a dedicated
[00:14:24] Stimulation room for me
[00:14:26] It doesn't mean I need to like live in a palace when I'm on vacation, but I need somewhere
[00:14:31] I know I can go each day
[00:14:34] Where I can close the door and not interact with someone when I am out of routine
[00:14:39] When I'm on vacation, that's a non-negotiable for me. I also need movement
[00:14:43] When I'm on vacation. It's not my regular routine. I'm not going to my regular gym
[00:14:47] But I know I need to move my body
[00:14:49] So there really are if I just sat here
[00:14:52] I could talk your ear off on a bunch of things that come to mind when I think of these are ways that I take care of myself
[00:14:59] But they feel like that they feel like taking care of myself
[00:15:05] Does that make sense and do you have a bunch of those? I mean
[00:15:09] I could probably say everything you said. Yes pretty much like
[00:15:14] and and they've become
[00:15:16] Like taking care of supportive to me helpful. I love that like in the mornings
[00:15:21] There I have very much so primed myself because it feels good and helps me
[00:15:25] There's no way I could wake up and even an hour later go straight into seeing a client or work or something
[00:15:31] That just isn't gonna feel great to me
[00:15:33] And I feel my best when I do things for myself and set myself up for the day
[00:15:37] So yes, definitely and I think that's come over time of really understanding
[00:15:43] Practicing and being aware of okay
[00:15:46] What is too much and what is supportive?
[00:15:49] That takes time to figure out but the more you have experience of like I've played with the amount of sessions a day
[00:15:55] Many things right like oh that was too much. Okay. I'm gonna scale back to this
[00:16:00] It also changes depending on what's going on in my life
[00:16:04] And what's going on what's happening, right? So how full is my life? How active am I how many people are in my around?
[00:16:11] You know, if I'm having a very chill week and I don't have much else going on
[00:16:15] Yeah, maybe I wouldn't feel as bad seeing more sessions in a day or something like that
[00:16:19] So it is dependent
[00:16:21] But there's definitely some parameters of this feels good to my nervous system because
[00:16:27] Yeah, I am more in tune with the world. I'm more in tune with people. I pick up on things
[00:16:31] I am that sponge more. Yes. Yeah, right. Yeah
[00:16:34] So then how can I I like to ask the question of like, how can I support that?
[00:16:40] Instead of feeling like, oh my gosh, I hate that I have to do this and don't get me wrong
[00:16:44] There's been those times for sure where I'm like, I'm over this work. I don't want to do it anymore
[00:16:49] Yeah, it's hard work
[00:16:51] Yeah, but over time understanding those nuances
[00:16:58] I mean
[00:16:59] Helps me be in my life so much more and it's enjoyable
[00:17:03] Yes, it's enjoyable. I and I think that I love that you are
[00:17:07] Using that word
[00:17:08] That these ways of taking care of ourselves
[00:17:11] They can feel enjoyable them in and of themselves and they can help us access joy throughout the day
[00:17:15] That's where I get into some back and forth with my clients when they and I I had this process for myself
[00:17:21] It's it's not like I arrived
[00:17:24] Thrilled at all the things I needed to do to take care of me. I had that saying like, why do I need to do all these things?
[00:17:30] But all the clients who say like that's a lot. I read all those examples
[00:17:33] You just shared christie like you'd get a lot more time back in your day if you weren't doing those things like
[00:17:40] My partner just hops out of bed and gets into work like how is that?
[00:17:44] Not objectively a better way
[00:17:47] To live like you have to do all this stuff. They don't need to do all this stuff
[00:17:51] and
[00:17:52] I've had some some ping-pongs
[00:17:54] with clients in that conversation and what it comes back to for me is this is a
[00:17:59] Like a gravity problem. We are not going to solve it. I can't suddenly just start floating through air
[00:18:05] And be anti gravity in my body. It's not
[00:18:08] an option
[00:18:10] I can't
[00:18:12] Change the fact that I am a sensitive person that I have like more mirror neurons in me than
[00:18:18] The typical person that I am that sponge
[00:18:21] And this might be an opinion like maybe other people feel differently and again
[00:18:25] There are things that can shift and we can talk about that too but in my
[00:18:28] Opinion it's not something I have had success
[00:18:32] Foundationally changing about myself
[00:18:34] and it feels
[00:18:37] Confrontational to myself
[00:18:39] To make that a goal
[00:18:40] So if I wake up every day and I see my partner hop out of bed and just get right to work and feel full of energy
[00:18:45] And I know that that's not within my access
[00:18:48] spending time
[00:18:50] Comparing myself to someone who doesn't need that does not feel compassionate to me
[00:18:53] It just is creating this gap where I feel like I'm failing
[00:18:57] I feel like it's some part of recovery that I haven't accessed
[00:19:00] And that is fueling
[00:19:02] A pain fear symptom fear nervous system cycle in and of itself
[00:19:06] So it's not that I don't understand the feelings of frustration around needing to
[00:19:12] Attend to our nervous systems in this way. It's just it's what I call a gravity problem
[00:19:15] Like my body won't float through air and defy gravity nor will I wake up in a body that is less
[00:19:23] sensitive to stimulation
[00:19:25] feelings
[00:19:27] vibe
[00:19:28] feet like everything
[00:19:30] Of the micro the micro environment around me and in many ways that macro environment we're living in
[00:19:36] Yeah, I would even
[00:19:38] Sometimes I say this too. I would even argue sometimes maybe not a hundred percent of the time
[00:19:41] But sometimes the people that do get straight out of bed and go into work
[00:19:46] I think they have some stress going on
[00:19:48] They don't always seem super happy. Do they get two hours in and they're like, oh
[00:19:53] It's days long already, you know, I mean you're stressed out too. Yeah
[00:19:57] It just may not show up like it might and those of us that have chronic symptoms and mind body
[00:20:04] I love that you said that it's so truly no one gets I mean whatever everyone's different
[00:20:09] Like no one gets off totally free like something everyone has there
[00:20:14] So that's the thing I think about all the time too like and I'm curious if you actually have an answer to this
[00:20:18] Or if you've ever thought about it, would you choose
[00:20:21] for your stress
[00:20:23] To show up differently like would you choose for it to show up in numbing yourself out?
[00:20:29] Would you choose for it to show off in and some sort of addiction or compulsion to work or like
[00:20:34] Would we I think it's we can't change it
[00:20:37] but sometimes I think I'm like
[00:20:39] My answer is no like as even though it's been a painful ride literally
[00:20:44] Like I would not change how clear the communication is
[00:20:48] That's a great question
[00:20:51] And that's hard. I mean, you're right. It's hard to answer because I don't know
[00:20:53] I don't know the other is the grass always greener or
[00:20:56] I have no idea because a lot of other of those other things the addiction would like whatever it is sounds really hard to
[00:21:03] and like you said
[00:21:04] Not always known like it might take a really long time for someone to come to if you will and look at it
[00:21:11] Whereas yeah with us. It's like hello. It's right off the bat. Our body's talking right to us. Yeah. Yes. Yeah
[00:21:18] And I find that really helpful
[00:21:20] And there's so many lessons and metaphors and I love myself so much more because of everything that I've learned throughout it
[00:21:28] Which helps me enjoy
[00:21:31] My life more and enjoy taking care of myself
[00:21:34] Yes, yeah
[00:21:35] Yes, I love that you keep bringing it back to the joy and taking care of yourself
[00:21:40] that really can
[00:21:42] Feel like that it really like what I think about not getting access
[00:21:46] And maybe this is also where the limits like that we can chat a little bit with the limitations
[00:21:51] When I think about not being able to attend to myself in that way like needing to
[00:21:57] Rush through my day or apply those old perfectionism standards that I used to like I used to live in
[00:22:03] discordance with the needs of my nervous system, right? Like probably all of us did that's what our
[00:22:07] symptoms were telling us
[00:22:09] I used to just blow past them like blow past my limits blow past my needs and it was
[00:22:14] awful
[00:22:16] but like this just works this just works better to be more
[00:22:21] Mindful and attentive and a lot of it is just watching like input like I can only tolerate so much input of like
[00:22:29] lots of things stimulation feel feelings also just like how much I'm affected by other people's
[00:22:35] feelings or nervous system activation like
[00:22:38] I might hit a limit
[00:22:40] sooner than other folks
[00:22:42] Yeah, and by understanding that limit
[00:22:45] Then when you are seeing people whether you're a therapist or not, right?
[00:22:49] When you if you are and if you identify as someone who's impacted by other people and sensitive to emotions and can read the room
[00:22:55] Really well, but then get overwhelmed easily
[00:22:58] By us understanding that and taking care of ourselves. We can be in it more. Yeah. Yeah
[00:23:03] Yeah
[00:23:05] Big time
[00:23:06] Yeah, okay, so then let's talk about what do we mean by limits by limitations?
[00:23:11] Okay, so I want to be mindful that everyone's limits are going to be different
[00:23:16] For a variety of different reasons, but one of them is people's goals are different
[00:23:19] So let me think of an example in my real life
[00:23:22] Long time ago when I was working at another group practice. We wanted to expand the practice
[00:23:26] So I was a therapist. I had those sets of skills. I'm pretty comfortable with people one-on-one
[00:23:32] And it was tasked to me by my supervisor to go out and
[00:23:36] Talk to other
[00:23:37] Physicians practitioners in the neighborhood of the office to try to
[00:23:41] form new relationships
[00:23:44] Which sounded great in theory. I definitely want public education around
[00:23:48] Nervous system healing. So like, yeah, totally everyone's part of the word
[00:23:51] I tried this for about a month and I had
[00:23:54] Raging anxiety every single day of it because I had to walk in
[00:23:59] To an all like a busy office in Beverly Hills of people
[00:24:02] I don't know go up to the receptionist like pitch like
[00:24:10] That sort of interaction where I don't have it like that it requires small talk and some degree of charm and like
[00:24:17] Smoothing and knowing the rules and engagement. I was so bad at it
[00:24:21] And I remember it took me
[00:24:23] I knew I felt anxious after a month
[00:24:25] But it took me about three months to go back to my boss and say
[00:24:29] I am not going to do this role
[00:24:30] But there was a choice point for me where I remember thinking to myself this is important
[00:24:35] Like this is not just like make new
[00:24:39] Buddies in the like in the professional neighborhood. We want to be able to help physicians understand what nervous system healing is
[00:24:46] So I want
[00:24:48] To be able to do this task
[00:24:51] theoretically
[00:24:52] So it was a choice point like is this something where I need to build my anxiety for
[00:24:57] In some ways it's conflict, right? Because like the person that I'm encountering doesn't necessarily want me to interrupt their day
[00:25:02] So I feel like a burden. I feel like I'm annoying them. Like I go into my head
[00:25:05] Do I want to grow my capacity for that?
[00:25:07] Or do I want to accept that this is a limit for me? Like I am not
[00:25:12] motivated enough to want this to be a skill of mine
[00:25:17] Or a goal of mine like might there be someone who's just better suited for this task
[00:25:22] Does it bring me enough enjoyment
[00:25:24] To want to work on this
[00:25:27] And for me with that example the motivation was not high enough
[00:25:30] There were other people on the team who just naturally like what do you mean?
[00:25:33] That makes you nervous like that person will never remember you just go ask if you want to bring a bunch who care
[00:25:39] That person is more motivated and will get more joy and fulfillment from the role
[00:25:43] So for me that was the limit
[00:25:46] Even though someone else might have looked at it and said like that was an opportunity for you to challenge your conflict avoidance
[00:25:52] So it I and that's just one example of probably many that occur all the time
[00:25:57] where
[00:25:58] Even within the role like the idea of limits
[00:26:02] I think there's some agency to be able to say do I want
[00:26:06] To work on this I think we can
[00:26:10] We can make goals and work on lots of things even if they feel really difficult or will take a very long time to achieve
[00:26:15] And you have to ask yourself. Am I interested in climbing that mountain?
[00:26:20] And if the answer is no, I think that's okay, and that might be different from another example that
[00:26:27] Probably too well known in this space. I was really afraid of flying
[00:26:32] For a long time and that did genuinely feel like a limit because I was I didn't
[00:26:38] I wanted to visit family and attend work conferences out of state and it elicited a lot of fear in me
[00:26:47] That could have been in a some other season or different version of me that might have been a limit
[00:26:52] Like I don't want to fly it's it's me. It's too up regulating for me. I'm not finding enough traction there
[00:26:57] That was a place where I pushed myself because my motivation was very high
[00:27:01] It was absolute. I couldn't imagine not leaving the state
[00:27:03] I had one very scary flying experience that like impact
[00:27:06] I was like it is possible for me to stack corrective experiences and heal from this
[00:27:11] So to totally random different examples where either way, I think it wouldn't
[00:27:16] I just think the person gets to decide is this a limit and you want to say I I can't I can't
[00:27:22] It's a boundary or I don't want to put effort into changing this or is this an area of growth for me
[00:27:30] And so
[00:27:31] With us and with nervous systems that are a little higher needs more sensitive if you will
[00:27:37] Yeah, we can make those decisions
[00:27:39] How much do we tune in and shift some of the limitations and how much do we not?
[00:27:46] And I think this is important to note because
[00:27:49] It's not overall inherently a bad thing to have a sensitive nervous system where I think sometimes it feels like that
[00:27:54] Right like well if I can't do all of these things, it's bad
[00:27:58] I'm not like this other person like you were talking about comparison, right?
[00:28:01] So I think there's this back and forth of
[00:28:05] Okay, what is impacting me and what's not which is yeah, definitely what you're just saying
[00:28:10] Yeah, yes, and they can be way just to name it because I'm in a different place right now than I was
[00:28:16] 10 years ago and I was in the throes of really intense fear like someone listening your push point might be
[00:28:22] I really want to go to the grocery store and it currently feels like a limit
[00:28:28] for because of fear anxiety sensations pain dizziness like that they can be much
[00:28:35] More like they can be more daily or quote unquote smaller
[00:28:38] Like I want to be able to expose myself to the grocery store is absolutely a worthwhile
[00:28:44] endeavor to take a look at and that for some people might be on depending on where they are
[00:28:50] A gross point because it might feel really important for them to feel capable of being able to do that for themselves
[00:28:56] And at some other juncture that might be a limit like that might be beyond where you are that day or that step
[00:29:03] Yeah, and the more too we have to recognize the more that we do start expanding our
[00:29:09] We say safety in our nervous system
[00:29:11] Maybe the more things that we approach
[00:29:13] But when we recognize there's a we're very overstimulated and a stuck fear response
[00:29:19] Yeah, it's going to look different than maybe we're both of you and I are now
[00:29:23] Yeah of expanding our limits. Yeah
[00:29:25] And I'm glad you brought that up because this is where the idea of approach and avoidance with limits is so important
[00:29:32] And I can hear a PRT lens here
[00:29:34] We there's a difference in my opinion between
[00:29:38] Respecting your limit and respecting your boundary and respecting your wants and your goals
[00:29:42] Versus allowing your anxiety to be the only thing that's fueling your decision making and I'm guilty
[00:29:49] We are all guilty of this. I think at some points. I certainly have been so it's okay
[00:29:53] If someone listening resonates with this and feels like anxiety rules all of my decisions that the fear brain
[00:29:59] Really takes precedence when it's on so you're in good company if you're experiencing this
[00:30:04] But that's where I'd want to help a client
[00:30:07] challenge
[00:30:08] That might it might feel like a limit because your anxiety is too high to go through that experience right now
[00:30:14] and
[00:30:16] I'd like for the decision making to come from a place of
[00:30:20] Groundedness or want or preference
[00:30:24] As opposed to the decision making solely being based on fear
[00:30:27] Because that's when limits can become really all-encompassing like if we start avoiding the grocery store
[00:30:33] We might start avoiding any interaction with neighbors. We might start interact
[00:30:38] We might start avoiding leaving our house. We might start avoiding leaving our living room
[00:30:42] Like the world can become very avoidance is contagious
[00:30:46] And the more that we avoid things the more that our brain codes all of those things as dangerous and anything
[00:30:51] Even like them are associated with them as dangerous and that can become like a very fast moving snowball
[00:30:58] Yeah, which i'm pretty sure a lot of people listening to this can resonate with because a lot of people end up having
[00:31:04] A certain symptom or a great example is like food sensitivities
[00:31:08] There's been a couple and then you're told that oh these other things are bad
[00:31:11] And so then you become more sensitive to those and especially with food
[00:31:15] It's a huge snowball effect because there's so much fear
[00:31:18] Around it. I'm really glad you brought up that specific because that makes it way more tangible same with movement
[00:31:24] Like if you have pain
[00:31:25] Yeah, and bending to your right causes pain
[00:31:29] Then it might become bending to your left. It might become anything with squatting
[00:31:32] It might become anything with any sort of rotation
[00:31:36] And that is so it's not your thank you so much for naming that it's not necessarily always
[00:31:41] Experiences or events or it can be something within your own body that you're either avoiding or that feels like a limit or a growth point
[00:31:50] Yeah, okay, so maybe we use one of those examples. How do we know what's something to
[00:31:56] expand our growth in and what's something to
[00:32:00] Maybe it would be too much at this time for our anxiety or fear
[00:32:04] Okay, I have a couple of
[00:32:07] Thoughts on that
[00:32:08] The first would be back to this idea of what's driving the decision
[00:32:12] Is it exclude anxiety is going to be in the mix no matter why we're like we're dealing with nervous system regulation
[00:32:18] But what's driving the decision? Is it purely fear and anxiety?
[00:32:22] And is there any way we can parse out fear and anxiety from
[00:32:27] preference or want
[00:32:29] And this can be hard when you're anxious. It's hard to imagine not being anxious
[00:32:34] But one simple question to start the ball rolling is
[00:32:37] Let's go back to the grocery the grocery store example and that could be I don't want to go
[00:32:40] I am scared to go to the grocery store because it's going to hurt too badly
[00:32:44] It's going to make me too nauseous. It's going to make me too dizzy or it's going to make me too anxious
[00:32:48] I'm not going to be able to calm down from it after lots of different reasons
[00:32:52] Why that might feel like a limit so
[00:32:54] Simply asking yourself if it weren't for the fear that I'm experiencing around this
[00:33:00] Do I want to be able to go like is that does it feel like I would prefer to be able to have the freedom to do that?
[00:33:08] Or do I not really care? It's like my partner does all the grocery shopping like that's not really
[00:33:12] I'm not super motivated to climb that mountain to be able to suss out that difference fear and anxiety versus want or preference
[00:33:20] And then if you do decide. Yeah, I actually do think I would want to do that if it weren't for the fear
[00:33:25] That doesn't necessarily mean you have to choose that goal or you have to choose it right away
[00:33:31] So you might recognize. Okay. This is something that I want to work on and there's a possibility
[00:33:36] It could be above your threshold
[00:33:39] And you'd have to work up to it and basically anything that you're working on can be broken down into smaller steps
[00:33:46] So it's a matter of what skills do you have to attempt to move you through that experience?
[00:33:52] And can those tools help you remain in some sort of window of tolerance as you're exposing yourself to the activity
[00:33:59] If the answer is yes, then absolutely you can push yourself into discomfort
[00:34:04] While using tools to regulate
[00:34:06] While recognizing if the tools are falling short
[00:34:10] Not because you're doing them wrong not because the tools are ineffective
[00:34:13] Just because that's where you're at in that stage that day or that season
[00:34:17] If while you're doing the experience
[00:34:19] You're entering a state of true distress or terror or panic that you are not able to regulate down from that's not corrective
[00:34:27] That's if you finish that experience and then ask yourself am I motivated to try again?
[00:34:33] And the answer is no that was absolutely terrifying. I did not feel any lick of empowerment
[00:34:38] Doesn't mean you can't do that goal just means we're going to break it down into a smaller step
[00:34:42] Yes, I'm so glad you mentioned that the idea that
[00:34:46] There's going to be anxiety. There's going to be some fear
[00:34:48] There's going to be uncomfortability because you're shifting something that is really scary could be really scary for your body
[00:34:53] Right your nervous system. So yeah, there's going to be that but it doesn't need to be this
[00:34:58] Insane amount of fear and anxiety and it's just like a horrible experience. Yeah
[00:35:03] Yeah, there's that's a very big difference
[00:35:05] Okay
[00:35:06] Okay, I'm not shifting necessarily a little bit but along this line of I thought about this question
[00:35:13] Can working on yourself actually backfire with someone with a higher and heaths nervous system?
[00:35:18] Like we do too much. That's too much for ourselves too much work
[00:35:21] Yeah, you mean in terms of the goals that we set. Yeah
[00:35:25] Because let me I'll say this too
[00:35:28] We know a lot of us come with perfectionism tendencies and high achievers and like wanting to
[00:35:34] Fix it and get better
[00:35:35] right and so
[00:35:38] When we recognize there's some sensitivities at least I've seen this a couple times where people are like, okay
[00:35:42] Well, I'm going to change that
[00:35:44] Right. I'm going to push past it all and and make me better fix it. Yep. How does that?
[00:35:50] Yeah, I don't think the again the goal for me is not to eliminate sensitivity
[00:35:56] It's to eliminate barriers to accessing
[00:35:59] Things you want to do a to accessing joy to accessing relationship. So
[00:36:02] There's a that feels really distinct to me. We're not just trying to make it so that your
[00:36:07] Either your body is not giving you clues
[00:36:10] Sensation signals or that's not the goal the goal is not to eliminate the clues or signals
[00:36:14] The goal is definitely not to be able to blow past them again
[00:36:18] And I I felt this way when I was first recovering like I want to bring my anxiety down so I can go back to pushing myself as hard as I was without anxiety
[00:36:28] Like well, that's
[00:36:29] not going to happen because
[00:36:32] Healing is going to require that you rid yourself of the mechanisms that
[00:36:37] Left you predisposed to all of this and I say all of this with a smile only because I've experienced it
[00:36:43] It is not funny. It's extremely difficult to go through and I myself
[00:36:48] Truly did feel that that was a viable goal at one point if I can learn to blow past my anxiety
[00:36:54] I can return to riding myself very hard
[00:36:58] Without experiencing anxiety
[00:37:00] That's just we learn through the process is not I for one have never a single time working with whatever hundreds of patients
[00:37:07] I have never seen anyone accomplish that goal. I have seen people
[00:37:12] Hold on to that goal and pause the process though
[00:37:14] I have heard that just be friends it feels so upset by the fact that they really will have to shift these parts of themselves
[00:37:21] That they just decide they're not ready to continue healing
[00:37:24] Right then and there
[00:37:26] Yes, I'm glad you brought that up. That is definitely can be part of the process of realizing maybe I don't want to do this right now
[00:37:32] Everyone has their own timeline
[00:37:34] everyone
[00:37:36] And also I'm glad you mentioned
[00:37:38] It's not about going getting back to where you were
[00:37:41] That's what so many people say because yeah, it makes sense. You've realized
[00:37:45] You've tracked over the past few years all of a sudden you have all these symptoms
[00:37:48] And you just want to feel like yourself again
[00:37:51] Yeah, I want to say though that
[00:37:54] going through it
[00:37:56] and
[00:37:58] Creating or you can say finding but I kind of like the word creating this newer version of yourself. It's actually way better
[00:38:05] Than the previous version. You don't have to go back for everything to be better
[00:38:11] But we don't realize that which makes sense. We can't realize it right and I love it
[00:38:17] No, I love I'm so glad that you said that and you can't imagine it if it's never if it's a state that you've never seen before and
[00:38:23] Perfections and then putting pressure on yourselves and all of those personality traits that we stack on people like again
[00:38:29] They're learned. They're adaptive. You didn't come into this world saying like I'm going to drive myself so hard
[00:38:35] That I pushed myself into chronic symptoms like nobody does that
[00:38:38] Yeah, and yeah, there was I have this conversation a lot and it was huge for me
[00:38:43] There's something about recognizing
[00:38:46] That we are all pretty much average at most things
[00:38:50] That is a huge access point to self-compassion
[00:38:55] And a huge challenge for people who are used to viewing themselves as exceptional and creating exceptional work and working exceptionally hard
[00:39:04] and blowing past the needs of your body in an exceptional way like
[00:39:08] If you are the person who always gets an a plus even on an exam
[00:39:11] That's designed to flunk you or you're the one who is the last person to leave the office every single day
[00:39:17] And everyone says like well, you know, whoever like they had no limit
[00:39:22] If you're the one who always get whatever it is all the athletes and how do you do all of that and all
[00:39:28] You become
[00:39:30] You I start to identify with this exceptionalism within yourself
[00:39:35] That I can't necessarily argue doesn't come from the way that you push yourself
[00:39:41] So you have to learn to become more invested in your experience of those accolades as opposed to the accolades themselves
[00:39:48] And I ridding yourself with that exceptionalism
[00:39:52] Is no joke and it's like
[00:39:56] I personally think I still have a flourishing life and career and it's not that I don't feel successful. It's just recognizing like
[00:40:03] Average is cool
[00:40:04] Like being in the like taking care of myself and finding balance
[00:40:08] So I would actually say is a better word than average like finding finding balance and like letting yourself choose
[00:40:15] I want to really push myself here and I don't care all about that other thing is so freeing and so joyful
[00:40:22] Even when you made that change from average to balance
[00:40:26] Yeah, there's this almost like yeah, okay, that feels better, right average and I think
[00:40:32] Actually, I'm not totally sure but I would kind of assume
[00:40:36] Because there's a societal standard around what average is and specifically in many societies
[00:40:41] Specifically western society
[00:40:43] There's this emphasis on succeeding and pushing and like don't be average in a way
[00:40:48] totally
[00:40:49] So yeah, most of us are average the bell curve is the biggest in the middle
[00:40:55] And it doesn't and for me when I think of the idea of average
[00:40:57] I also think of just the summation of everything that happens in my day and recognizing
[00:41:03] I can't be exceptional at all of them at the same time. So
[00:41:08] I love my work. I do feel like I succeed in it. I feel like
[00:41:12] I feel great at what I do and I love doing it and the people that I help
[00:41:16] So that's like a push point for me
[00:41:18] I'm not the room mom at my at my kids preschool
[00:41:22] Like I show up on the first day and I tell them like thank you so much tell the teachers
[00:41:26] I thank you for taking care of my kids. I appreciate you. I love you
[00:41:30] I as such a gift that I get to drop them off here. I will not be here
[00:41:34] I will not be able to be in two places at once
[00:41:38] For example, because that's not as important to me making dinner for my kids is important to me
[00:41:42] That's a push point like that's just you just make choices and recognize you can't be exceptional
[00:41:48] That for me is shedding myself of exceptionalism
[00:41:52] I don't think anyone can do all the things all out all the time
[00:41:56] I used to think that I burned myself to the ground trying
[00:41:59] Yeah, yeah that came up for me a lot when I just first opened private practice
[00:42:04] And I was listening to like business podcasts and building a practice and things like that
[00:42:07] And I remember someone talking about you can't have all of your buckets in life
[00:42:12] partnership business
[00:42:14] social
[00:42:16] Health like they will not all be perfect at the same time. Yeah
[00:42:20] Yeah, and very similar right and we could even talk about that in terms of
[00:42:23] Especially when you're in the beginning or the middle of your journey with symptoms
[00:42:27] And you might have this like whack-a-mole of symptoms like one pops up the other pops up, right?
[00:42:32] We do kind of have to sometimes we work on one and then we kind of move to the other
[00:42:37] It's all very similar but
[00:42:39] Right like every yeah, it always be perfect. Yeah. Yeah, and things heal at different times when I shift at different times
[00:42:45] Yeah, okay
[00:42:48] so
[00:42:49] As we're looking at nervous system
[00:42:52] sensitivity really as we're seeing it like as okay, there's
[00:42:56] We didn't use the word power, but there can be a lot of power in it, right when you can recognize yourself as being tuned in
[00:43:03] Yeah, and if you like the word tuned in instead of sensitive sensitive can sometimes come with a
[00:43:09] Negative connotation if you will I don't think you and I feel that way right now, but probably have in the past totally
[00:43:16] and then also recognizing that
[00:43:19] That doesn't have to be limits
[00:43:21] You don't have to have limits on your whole life because you are a little bit more tuned in
[00:43:25] Maybe you need a little bit more throughout your day to understand that balance
[00:43:30] That I think this is just a really powerful episode of this thing. It's just very needed. Oh good. Yeah
[00:43:36] I because it feels so powerful when you're living in action. Yeah
[00:43:40] Yeah, and I like why you just said very much it doesn't need to be it's
[00:43:44] It can be little things throughout the day that make a big difference to you, but that don't
[00:43:50] It's not like it
[00:43:51] It doesn't actually take hours out of your life or drain you or make you so different from everyone else like
[00:43:59] If I'm at a party for three hours, and I'm the only one who needs to step out a couple of times to get fresh air and breathe
[00:44:06] No one noticed
[00:44:08] No one else recognized for everyone else. I was at the party
[00:44:10] And I leave feeling like I enjoyed it and everyone else feels like I was there because there was like it's
[00:44:15] It's like drinking water. You take small sips throughout the day to stay hydrated
[00:44:19] You're not just like guzzling out of a hose all day. Regulation is small sips throughout the day
[00:44:27] I love that. Okay. Is there anything else around
[00:44:31] Higher needs nervous system the nervous system that you feel like is important to note as we're talking here
[00:44:37] I would just ask
[00:44:39] I mean if someone told me this while I was still in pain I would
[00:44:43] My eyes would roll back in my head. So I welcome all the eye rolls
[00:44:47] So I just really invite patients as you are figuring out
[00:44:51] What does it mean for me to have long-term maintenance of my nervous system because the things I did
[00:44:59] To help relieve pressure and pain and intensity and anxiety while I was in high sensation
[00:45:07] They've changed. I do different things now
[00:45:10] I don't use somatic tracking every day now. I don't need to meditate on a very strict schedule
[00:45:16] I'm no longer practicing graded exposure with my body. The way I move is different
[00:45:21] And I still move I still meditate. I'm still tuned in
[00:45:26] So you it's a long process a lifelong process of figuring out what does my nervous system need today
[00:45:34] in this season and can I accept that and recognize my joy
[00:45:39] And my comfort will be expanded if I recognize that these are simply things I need. I can't solve gravity
[00:45:48] I can't solve my sensitivity nor should that necessarily ever be the goal
[00:45:54] Love that. Thank you. It does look different over time
[00:45:58] What you do to help yourself your practices how you expose yourself with your limits
[00:46:05] Definitely, we actually don't we're not looking for
[00:46:08] Rigidness. It's not actually helpful. Yeah, right. Agreed. Yeah, but it is important to take that time if you need it or take that balance
[00:46:15] Figure out what that balance is
[00:46:17] Absolutely. Yeah, okay. All right. Thank you so much Christy. Really appreciate it
[00:46:23] Where can people tune in to and find you?
[00:46:26] Oh, thank you. Also, Grace. This was really fun and I really looked forward to it and it was just as
[00:46:31] Endurable as I imagined
[00:46:33] People can find me and my team at bettermindcenter.com and I'm on instagram at better.with.Christy
[00:46:40] Awesome. Thank you. Thank you
[00:46:43] If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to me if you could do these couple things
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