The Healing Power of Heart Rate Variability with Jessica Corbin

[00:00:00] Hey there and welcome to Heal with Grace.
[00:00:03] I'm your host Grace Secker and I'm a holistic licensed therapist and nervous system coach
[00:00:08] who believes that the chronic and often unseen symptoms you're living with are a sign of
[00:00:12] something deeper going on.
[00:00:14] A sign that your nervous system needs attention.
[00:00:17] In each episode I'll share the science behind the most common chronic health disorders
[00:00:21] plus holistic health tips using mental, physical and spiritual practices.
[00:00:26] You'll hear what I've learned in my journey and the true stories from our
[00:00:29] trusted guests so you can feel less alone in your experience and give yourself grace
[00:00:34] no matter what you're going through.
[00:00:36] So without further ado, settle in and get cozy, it's time to Heal with Grace.
[00:00:42] Hello hello and welcome back to the Heal with Grace podcast.
[00:00:46] I have a wonderful guest today and her name is Jessica Corbin.
[00:00:50] She is a somatic educator and founder of Source helping leaders and high performers
[00:00:55] using nervous system intelligence and HRB biofeedback to prevent burnout, build resilience
[00:01:01] and create sustainable success.
[00:01:03] Y'all this conversation just lit me up and really resonated with so much of what we
[00:01:11] do here in understanding ourselves.
[00:01:13] She speaks to it on a little bit of a different level and talks about the energetic letter
[00:01:18] literacy especially when it comes to people and business and really at the core what
[00:01:22] we're talking about is how to understand ourselves and become a little bit more literate
[00:01:26] about our nervous system and our awareness and our energy.
[00:01:30] And so if you need a little bit more understanding around what does it actually mean to connect
[00:01:34] myself and what does it mean when I'm disconnected in my nervous system, this is very much
[00:01:40] so going to help you with that and the way that she speaks about it is really beautiful.
[00:01:45] So without further ado, I will just go ahead and let you take a listen.
[00:01:49] So here you go.
[00:01:51] Hi, Jessica.
[00:01:52] Thank you so, so much for being here.
[00:01:54] I'm very much so looking forward to this conversation and learning a lot from you.
[00:01:59] So I appreciate it.
[00:02:00] Yeah, it's a pleasure and an honor to be here as well.
[00:02:03] Thank you, Grace.
[00:02:04] Can you tell us a little bit about what you're doing right now and how you got here?
[00:02:08] Yeah.
[00:02:09] So I am the chief energy officer for a company called Source and we're a mission driven
[00:02:15] company and our mission is to regenerate human energy and I got obsessed with this mission
[00:02:23] called to this mission because I had a nasty habit of burning myself out and I needed
[00:02:29] to solve my my own problem and I was a big athlete in my younger days.
[00:02:35] So I ran cross country and track and division one athlete.
[00:02:38] So it was at a pretty high level surrounded by some of the world's greatest coaches.
[00:02:42] So I was perpetually injured and sidelined and I did not know anything about recovery,
[00:02:49] but I had like this iron clad will where I could mind over matter myself.
[00:02:55] I could tolerate high levels of discomfort and pain and that was a reflected back to
[00:03:00] me as something that was an attribute.
[00:03:03] Like I should be really proud of myself that I could do that because in acute phases,
[00:03:07] you know, it enables a certain kind of success, but it's not a long term strategy
[00:03:12] as I came to find out.
[00:03:13] But I use that strategy of mind over matter fake it till you make it dig deep,
[00:03:17] push through, white knuckling it, all the things that were taught by by the culture
[00:03:22] in the system.
[00:03:23] I use that strategy all the way through my career.
[00:03:26] My early career is a TV host and reporter.
[00:03:28] So I used to do live television for various networks.
[00:03:33] I have my own show on the style network.
[00:03:34] I reported for E news and CNN.
[00:03:38] Everything was going great using that strategy ish until I really kind of had
[00:03:43] to hit my knees when my older brother got into a traumatic brain injury accident.
[00:03:48] And he was emerging from a coma for about a year and a half.
[00:03:51] And that's when all of my dig deep push through strategies stopped working.
[00:03:58] And my system actually started to completely collapse.
[00:04:02] And I was a total shell of myself.
[00:04:04] The life force that I had built my early athletics on and my early career on
[00:04:09] was nowhere to be found.
[00:04:11] And I was so confused and desperate and heartbroken.
[00:04:15] The only place I could go, there's two places to get some relief
[00:04:20] was my yoga mat that I dedicated myself to that is still my practice.
[00:04:25] But I also found this acupuncturist and this acupuncture.
[00:04:29] So if you haven't ever experienced acupuncture, three finger pulse,
[00:04:33] they go four layers deep and they tell you all these things about your system.
[00:04:37] And he would say, your chi is really strong today.
[00:04:40] You could run hard or your chi is really wiry today.
[00:04:43] You need to do yoga.
[00:04:45] And that was my light bulb moment.
[00:04:47] What was he assessing in my pulse?
[00:04:51] And how can I do this for myself every single day?
[00:04:54] Like, I don't want to pay a hundred bucks a pop to get that assessment.
[00:04:58] And from the Eastern standpoint, it requires the human hand.
[00:05:03] It is an art and a science.
[00:05:05] But there was a proxy on the Western medical side, which was heart rate variability.
[00:05:11] And I really dove in to exploring if I could leverage that.
[00:05:16] And I found out that I could.
[00:05:18] This is when the app store first came out.
[00:05:20] It was like 2012.
[00:05:22] So it's really, really early days, you know, and there was two HRV apps in there.
[00:05:27] One was in Japanese and one was in English.
[00:05:29] And so I reach out to the gentleman that had the English HRV app.
[00:05:32] And I tell him, this is not just a tool for objective number.
[00:05:38] We need treatment, like some sort of like recommendation structure.
[00:05:41] I convinced him to partner with me.
[00:05:44] I totally empty my okay.
[00:05:46] And I do, you know, the entrepreneur startup thing, you know, living on a dream.
[00:05:52] Delusional optimism for the win.
[00:05:57] I went for it and I got my first product to market.
[00:06:02] And I think I sold three and they were all of my family members.
[00:06:06] I need to figure out how to market this thing.
[00:06:08] And that's when I met my co-founder and her name is Christie Brito.
[00:06:12] And we've been together since 2014.
[00:06:16] And we attracted in some local folks and we were using Facebook.
[00:06:23] One of the users was the head of HR at Activision Blizzard.
[00:06:27] And she said, this is a slam dunk corporate health solution.
[00:06:31] We want to pilot it.
[00:06:32] And then I had another light bulb.
[00:06:34] I think we can aggregate group data and visualize the nervous system of culture.
[00:06:39] I think we can do this so that it's like we have a heat map of the entire
[00:06:43] organization as a living organism and we can see in to each team
[00:06:47] without exposing anybody's personal information.
[00:06:50] But I can see load and I can see recovery patterns.
[00:06:54] And I can see actually untapped potential.
[00:06:58] You can see it.
[00:06:59] And that's the vision, man.
[00:07:02] That's the vision that we've been building and building upon at Source.
[00:07:06] We now call it energetic literacy because that's what it is,
[00:07:11] the ability to understand, manage and renew energy.
[00:07:14] And we work with individuals, teams and organizations
[00:07:19] to solve the human energy crisis.
[00:07:21] That's the journey so far, so far.
[00:07:23] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:07:24] So far, I'm curious.
[00:07:26] What does that mean, then?
[00:07:27] Is there a difference?
[00:07:28] It just keeps it keeps emerging.
[00:07:30] It just it's so emergent, you know.
[00:07:33] I have to stop thinking that I have the total plan.
[00:07:37] It's like I have the North Star about how to get there.
[00:07:39] That's that's what's emerging.
[00:07:42] It's like I can see it.
[00:07:43] But then the path literally is like revealed step by step.
[00:07:48] So attunement, alignment, you know, is so necessary
[00:07:53] because you know this, it's like any time that we try to control the outcome.
[00:07:59] And the nervous system does not like that.
[00:08:01] It doesn't like that at all.
[00:08:03] And I don't think life is essentially life likes its plan
[00:08:06] better than your little mind.
[00:08:08] So it's like you have to like make room for magic.
[00:08:10] You got to make room for, you know, the steps to be revealed.
[00:08:14] But we do have the North Star.
[00:08:16] It's just the steps.
[00:08:17] That's what is emergent.
[00:08:18] We talk a lot about that in understanding how to work with your nervous system
[00:08:22] to get out of symptoms, because if you start to do some nervous system
[00:08:26] practices, somatic healing, very practice, we use a somatic tracking.
[00:08:30] Literally, it's what it's called.
[00:08:32] But if you're doing that tracking sensation with your body to get out of
[00:08:35] pain, to get out of symptoms, to get out of that, which we want you to
[00:08:39] eventually, right?
[00:08:40] But if you're doing it, your nervous system, your brain's going to be
[00:08:42] like, no, I'm too smart for you.
[00:08:43] We're not doing that.
[00:08:44] Right.
[00:08:45] Yeah.
[00:08:46] It has to be about, I mean, at the highest, you know, it has to be about
[00:08:51] presence.
[00:08:52] Like that's really what this is about.
[00:08:55] So, yeah.
[00:08:57] Which I'm guessing is also a way to help renew the energy, right?
[00:09:00] I'm not sure all the different ways, but I mean, if we're constantly
[00:09:04] going, going, going, we're depleting that we're not actually renewing
[00:09:07] by being present and being there.
[00:09:09] And actually that brings me to, can you define HRB for people that don't
[00:09:13] know, we've talked a little bit about it here.
[00:09:15] But yeah, certainly.
[00:09:17] So it's heart rate variability.
[00:09:19] And heart rate variability is a biomarker.
[00:09:21] Everybody has it.
[00:09:22] And it's kind of a bad title for what it is doing.
[00:09:28] It should be autonomic nervous system variability.
[00:09:31] Because when you say heart rate, heart rate variability, I really think
[00:09:34] that it's just about your heart rate.
[00:09:35] And it's not, it's much more subtle than that.
[00:09:38] It's kind of looking at the cross section of your cardiac and your
[00:09:41] nervous system, but it's really the autonomic nervous system is what
[00:09:45] it's looking at.
[00:09:46] So it provides a window, right?
[00:09:49] HRB provides a window into the nervous system so we can see how
[00:09:52] recovered you are from the prior day stress.
[00:09:54] Now, I will then slow it down even more.
[00:09:58] There are two ways to measure heart rate variability.
[00:10:01] So like one is you can measure heart rate variability for something
[00:10:05] called a state change.
[00:10:06] And there are products out there that are miracles that, that
[00:10:10] facilitate this work like heart math, they facilitate state changes.
[00:10:14] They get you out of kind of high arousal stress into a state of what
[00:10:19] is called coherence.
[00:10:20] You could also think of it as the physiological equivalent of gratitude.
[00:10:24] It gets your system into like a humming space.
[00:10:27] And that is one use of heart rate variability.
[00:10:31] How we use it is as a singular measurement to look at overall
[00:10:37] readiness for the day.
[00:10:40] It's, and this is because we use what's called an ultra short term reading.
[00:10:46] So it's one minute a day.
[00:10:48] We can take our finger to our camera and get this snapshot.
[00:10:53] Think of it as like looking at your gas tank to see how much gas is in
[00:10:57] the tank so that you know how to navigate.
[00:10:59] You know, and if you kind of start the day on empty, you know
[00:11:02] that you're going to have to like pull over and like fuel up in
[00:11:04] various ways versus a full tank, you can really like rip
[00:11:07] the drawer and just go go crazy.
[00:11:09] But we really want people to kind of understand first so that they
[00:11:15] can manage second so that then they can renew themselves.
[00:11:19] And that's what the objective marker of heart rate variability is doing.
[00:11:23] So how you mentioned a little bit when it is high arousal.
[00:11:26] It sounds very sexual, but it's not intended to be.
[00:11:29] Although it could be, but it's like when your nervous system is at
[00:11:33] high alert, yeah.
[00:11:35] So I actually learned about this in a few different ways.
[00:11:38] But when I was in grad school, I was in a class for couples therapy
[00:11:42] and we actually learned to use it in mock sessions to note, hey,
[00:11:46] we're talking about this subject and there's a lot of high arousal here.
[00:11:49] Let's check your HRV.
[00:11:51] So you notice when maybe your partner saying something that is
[00:11:55] activating for you or some type of conversation, right?
[00:11:58] And I remember being like, that's a really cool physiological
[00:12:01] marker that we can track, right?
[00:12:03] And that was for me, the very beginning of understanding my body connection.
[00:12:06] And then I also have a training in yoga therapy and we use that very much
[00:12:11] so in trauma-informed yoga therapy.
[00:12:13] But can you speak to also, okay, so in the higher arousal of the
[00:12:16] nervous system state, what are we wanting?
[00:12:18] Well, what are we seeing with the HRV and what are we wanting to
[00:12:20] get to with it?
[00:12:21] So people, well, with how we use it, we actually aren't looking
[00:12:25] at high arousal, low arousal.
[00:12:27] That is when you're using HRV for state changes.
[00:12:31] And I would say neither are good or bad necessarily, like a high arousal
[00:12:37] state, even though we don't use that at source, but just to answer
[00:12:40] your question, a high arousal state is just being like, okay, ready to go.
[00:12:44] Ready to like mobilize, right?
[00:12:47] But you need the skillfulness to downshift out of that gear.
[00:12:50] Otherwise that's going to burn some really precious fuel.
[00:12:53] What we're looking at is how you're like basically, again, the gas tank.
[00:12:58] Like, are you extracting from yourself faster than you can repair?
[00:13:03] That's the big deal.
[00:13:04] And a lot of times people are doing it because they are not in their bodies.
[00:13:10] They don't have any form of embodiment or interoception.
[00:13:13] They can't sense the flavors.
[00:13:15] It's literally, they can't access it.
[00:13:18] They're living from the mind and they've lost the language of the body.
[00:13:23] You could also think of it like, you know, they're living
[00:13:26] from more left brain and not right brain.
[00:13:28] Right brain is where all of your somatic, intuitive, emotional, energetic information is.
[00:13:34] Our society teaches us to be overly indexed on left brain, on logic,
[00:13:38] on rational thinking, on looking at things as parts, you know, rather than holes.
[00:13:45] And a big part of the work here is getting your left brain in to
[00:13:51] validate what's happening on your right brain and then have the right brain
[00:13:55] do the same so that there's a real like integrated symbiotic relationship
[00:14:00] happening between these aspects of self, but people are walking around so lopsided.
[00:14:05] And that's how they get stuck in a gear because they can't even access.
[00:14:10] They don't even know how to validate.
[00:14:12] I am actually triggered or this thing in my throat that I always get
[00:14:17] is because I'm not speaking in something that needs to be spoken.
[00:14:20] It's like this body is such a wonderland of information.
[00:14:25] And we just haven't been given the nurturing to learn its language.
[00:14:31] And so that's essentially what source is up to, because it isn't just about
[00:14:36] the objective marker of the HRV.
[00:14:40] That's important.
[00:14:40] That's the portal.
[00:14:41] That's the entry.
[00:14:43] And then we have to look at, well, why, well, what's going on?
[00:14:48] And that is its own other dimension, that subjective dimension and how we
[00:14:54] teach people to move through it is in five stages.
[00:14:58] So we look at their willingness to be with their energetic information.
[00:15:02] Then we look at their awareness.
[00:15:04] OK, how is it flowing?
[00:15:06] Where? What's the, you know, the pressure or the feeling?
[00:15:10] Then we look at articulation.
[00:15:11] Can you put language to that awareness?
[00:15:14] Then we look at action, which is, can you align with the information
[00:15:18] that's coming through and take action from that place?
[00:15:21] And then finally, reflection.
[00:15:23] And we look at it in relation to ourselves, in relation to our relationships,
[00:15:27] other people, because we might get really good at our own being energetically
[00:15:31] literate with our own self, but then rippling that out into another dynamic.
[00:15:37] That's a whole new level of vulnerability and practice.
[00:15:41] And then also how to become energetically literate with our work,
[00:15:45] because these workplaces are energetic entities in and of themselves
[00:15:50] that have a consciousness and we need to be in right relationship
[00:15:53] with our creations so that, you know, kind of multidimensional harmony can exist.
[00:15:59] So that's that's the overall approach.
[00:16:02] You know, I love those different stages.
[00:16:04] I can see so much of how a process of understanding yourself.
[00:16:09] Those are going to be the steps, right?
[00:16:11] So once someone has that willingness, how do you help increase the awareness
[00:16:16] or bring awareness? Yeah. Yeah.
[00:16:18] So we have people self-rate.
[00:16:20] So when they come in, we'll have them self-rate, subjective rate.
[00:16:23] We have five different insight questions that we ask and they will rate
[00:16:27] their willingness, awareness, articulation, action, reflection on a scale
[00:16:31] from one to five, one being low relative capacity, five being high relative capacity.
[00:16:37] So let's say they come in, they're like, I'm really willing.
[00:16:40] I'm out of like a four.
[00:16:41] And then we're like, cool.
[00:16:42] And then we're like, well, how are how aware are you of the energy
[00:16:45] and emotions running through your body?
[00:16:46] And they're like, like a one.
[00:16:49] And then we're like, OK, cool.
[00:16:50] OK, so here's going to be your commitment for the next week, two weeks, month.
[00:16:55] Any time that you engage, let's say a task in your day, we just want you to pause
[00:17:01] and just do a body scan, just body scan, go slow.
[00:17:05] And you just know, OK, pressure, butterfly.
[00:17:09] And we're not meaning making.
[00:17:10] We're literally just scanning.
[00:17:13] And that is reconnecting them at the next level to their information.
[00:17:19] And that's that's that's one of many simple awareness practices that you could run.
[00:17:25] And then once they get that, let's say above a three, they can move to the next.
[00:17:30] OK, now let's look at what is this if this was, you know,
[00:17:33] like when you breathe into the space, do any memories come up?
[00:17:37] Do any impressions?
[00:17:38] And a lot of times it's no.
[00:17:40] And it's like, that's OK.
[00:17:41] You just go real slow.
[00:17:43] OK, well, maybe I feel this just because my chair isn't OK, cool.
[00:17:47] It could be physical.
[00:17:48] Maybe this is because.
[00:17:51] I feel pressure at work.
[00:17:53] That could be.
[00:17:54] But we're we're getting them to follow the gong of their own body, right?
[00:17:58] The resonance.
[00:17:59] So a lot of the art is we can give them primers, but we're always guiding
[00:18:04] them back into, you know, them themselves.
[00:18:08] And this is the work you do.
[00:18:10] So it's like, no doubt.
[00:18:13] Exactly.
[00:18:14] But that's a.
[00:18:15] Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's it's just this reconnection.
[00:18:19] You're literally reconnecting people.
[00:18:23] And you could say their body signals.
[00:18:25] I say your energetic information because.
[00:18:29] I don't know why it just is that's what resonates with me.
[00:18:32] It's like, I did not understand the level of wisdom that was available to me,
[00:18:37] the level of knowing that was available to me, because.
[00:18:42] I was taught to dig deep and push through and unsee my body's signals.
[00:18:47] So now that I'm back in, I'm like, wow, I really feel like it's one or two
[00:18:53] questions away from understanding most of the time.
[00:18:56] The discipline is to slow down enough to first ask the question to sell
[00:19:03] and then have the discipline to stay present until something is revealed
[00:19:08] without gripping or contorting or attaching.
[00:19:12] It's like, you know, those are some pretty significant disciplines to cultivate.
[00:19:17] That's a really important piece to note, especially your journey
[00:19:20] with being so cut off, cut off from probably yourself and your body
[00:19:23] because of the conditioning, right?
[00:19:26] That a lot of people have, but a lot of our listeners are in that very
[00:19:30] same boat, maybe in a little bit of a different way, but they've been very
[00:19:34] cut off and don't understand to the point where their body is like screaming
[00:19:38] at them to understand through symptoms, but it can be really hard to be like,
[00:19:43] well, I don't know what I'm experiencing.
[00:19:45] I mean, I have some pain here, but I don't know what that means.
[00:19:49] And I feel or I see a lot of people stuck in that place of I'm grasping
[00:19:54] this whole connection with my body, but I'm not learning or hearing anything.
[00:19:58] Nothing's coming up.
[00:19:59] I don't know what emotion is.
[00:20:01] I don't know what it means.
[00:20:02] And people get in a loop.
[00:20:03] So I think just your story of understanding, I mean, how you've
[00:20:07] gotten to even just articulated in this way, you can tell that you have
[00:20:10] that connection with yourself.
[00:20:11] And can you speak to that journey of learning for yourself?
[00:20:16] Hey, friend, it's Grace.
[00:20:17] I know you're tired of feeling like managing your physical and mental
[00:20:20] health is just one big moving target.
[00:20:22] I also know that you've spent years of your life and hundreds
[00:20:25] of dollars on doctor's visits, juice cleanses, fad diets
[00:20:28] and fancy supplements, only to feel like nothing about your chronic
[00:20:32] symptoms has changed.
[00:20:33] If this sounds like you consider this your invitation to find
[00:20:36] a holistic health protocol that works for you and your body, even
[00:20:39] if you have chronic symptoms, unhealed trauma or a dysregulated
[00:20:42] nervous system.
[00:20:44] That's exactly what's waiting for you inside the mind, body
[00:20:47] healing method, my 12 week group program that's designed to help
[00:20:50] you say body or chronic symptoms through learning how to regulate
[00:20:53] your nervous system, retrain your brain and heal unresolved trauma.
[00:20:57] Our clients have found relief from even the most chronic of
[00:21:00] symptoms, including fibromyalgia, sciatica, migraines, gut issues
[00:21:05] and other uncomfortable symptoms without pills or a long list
[00:21:07] of rituals and regimens.
[00:21:09] If you'd like to learn more about our program, head over to
[00:21:12] the show notes and learn more, because the truth is that
[00:21:15] there is a protocol that works for you.
[00:21:17] You just might not have found the right balance for your
[00:21:20] body yet.
[00:21:21] Now let's get back to the episode.
[00:21:23] Mm hmm.
[00:21:24] Think my life has been a really beautiful juxtaposition of pain
[00:21:31] and love.
[00:21:32] I've had enough love, like true deep, I could like cry about
[00:21:37] the levels of support and love I have in my life and people
[00:21:41] that are dedicated to my flourishing.
[00:21:44] I haven't always been understood, but I've felt
[00:21:47] consistently love.
[00:21:49] So I've had enough of that love and enough of the pain
[00:21:52] to make me go, okay, because the pain is intelligent.
[00:21:56] The pain is such a guide.
[00:21:59] Once you understand that the pain is like a bumper lane that
[00:22:03] you're like bumping up against.
[00:22:05] And it is there for your benefit in many regards.
[00:22:09] It's just that you have to relate to it different.
[00:22:11] You have to see it for what it is rather than the
[00:22:15] fierce story about it, you know, but the love has
[00:22:18] given me the courage where the pain gave me the
[00:22:20] motivation for my evolution and I would attribute the juxtaposition
[00:22:27] of the two, you know, and I just I have always been
[00:22:31] interested in human potential.
[00:22:33] Like I came out wanting to optimize, but that's like
[00:22:38] old game now.
[00:22:39] The new game is regenerate because optimize is still a
[00:22:42] bit mechanical where regeneration is really about
[00:22:46] understanding the logic of life so that you create
[00:22:50] conditions conducive for life to happen on its own.
[00:22:54] So it doesn't have to be such a muscling, you know, and by
[00:22:57] the way, that definition is not mine.
[00:22:59] That's Janine Benius.
[00:23:01] So creating conditions conducive to life.
[00:23:03] That is regeneration.
[00:23:05] And so now it's like I'm gardening, like I'm a
[00:23:08] gardener rather than like the hero.
[00:23:12] It's like old game wants you to be the hero where
[00:23:14] it's like there's so much if we can just learn how to
[00:23:17] reconnect with like natural law, like so much of it happens
[00:23:22] on its own, like we don't have to muscle it.
[00:23:24] So yeah, I watched a few different videos of you
[00:23:28] and I heard you talk about the separation of self is a
[00:23:32] form of dysregulation or dysregulation is really
[00:23:34] coming from the separation of self.
[00:23:36] And I'm guessing from what you're saying of the
[00:23:38] regeneration, that's kind of on the same line.
[00:23:40] So what exactly do you mean by that?
[00:23:42] How does that happen?
[00:23:43] The separation?
[00:23:44] So when we were sitting with the problem of solving
[00:23:47] the human energy crisis and you're sitting with
[00:23:49] that problem in earnest and like, how do you solve?
[00:23:51] How do you solve this?
[00:23:53] The first impulse is, well, make sure that people
[00:23:55] are like getting good sleep and they're eating right
[00:23:57] and they're, you know, they're exercising and all
[00:23:59] of that is very, very true.
[00:24:00] The issue was, is that we were seeing very
[00:24:02] dedicated people doing all those things.
[00:24:05] And yet they were still burnt, burnt out and
[00:24:09] depleted and overwhelmed.
[00:24:10] So the lifestyle hacks weren't enough.
[00:24:13] And so when you sit with it even further and you
[00:24:15] go deeper, you realize that people are actually, you
[00:24:20] could look at it one of two ways.
[00:24:21] And this is the work of Laura Storm, who's a
[00:24:23] teacher of mine around regenerative business.
[00:24:26] So there are four areas of separation that have
[00:24:30] created the poly crisis and the human energy
[00:24:34] crisis is one of those poly crises.
[00:24:36] So the areas of separation are between human
[00:24:41] and nature, between right brain and left brain,
[00:24:45] inner and outer and masculine and feminine.
[00:24:48] And all of this separation has led to us feeling
[00:24:52] siloed and that siloing is literally enabling
[00:24:56] life from regenerating itself.
[00:24:58] So if separation is the cause of the poly crisis,
[00:25:03] then reconnection is the solution.
[00:25:06] And then the question is, well, how do we,
[00:25:10] how do we reconnect on all of these major levels?
[00:25:12] Source is a part of the regenerative movement,
[00:25:16] but we are only addressing two of the four areas.
[00:25:19] So we're addressing the disconnect between
[00:25:21] inner and outer.
[00:25:22] We really want people to reconnect to their
[00:25:25] internal landscape through sensing and intero
[00:25:28] section, right?
[00:25:29] And really starting to validate kind of all
[00:25:32] the energetic somatic intuitive information
[00:25:34] coming through as viable that we need to
[00:25:36] bring this into the decision making room.
[00:25:39] And we also need contributing to the
[00:25:41] reparation between or the reconnection between
[00:25:44] right brain and left brain.
[00:25:45] We sit with many, many organizations and
[00:25:48] executives that are looking at these systemic
[00:25:50] issues only from left brain.
[00:25:52] And that's why they keep perpetuating themselves.
[00:25:55] So we need to educate them about their brain.
[00:25:57] And when people come into, you know, the
[00:25:59] understand that you're leaving half of your
[00:26:00] brain out of the decision making process,
[00:26:03] that's, that's a humbling statement.
[00:26:04] And it gets them to listen.
[00:26:06] She's like, why wouldn't you have this whole
[00:26:09] other side of your brain if it isn't for, and
[00:26:12] the thing is, is that not listening to it is
[00:26:14] the body is so smart.
[00:26:16] It will start to bang on those pots and pans
[00:26:19] and those whispers become screams.
[00:26:21] And it's like, just like a child, once you
[00:26:24] give it the attention, the reconnection and
[00:26:26] the compassionate care, it feels safe.
[00:26:29] And the wailing starts to calm down because
[00:26:32] the reconnection is here.
[00:26:33] And that's what life wants.
[00:26:35] That's what life wants.
[00:26:37] It doesn't want to be siloed.
[00:26:40] So I don't know if I answered your question,
[00:26:43] but I sure gave you a sermon right then.
[00:26:46] You did. Well, and I haven't heard that the
[00:26:49] different ways of disconnection, the separation.
[00:26:52] And I really, that's very interesting to me.
[00:26:55] I'm going to take that in of understanding
[00:26:57] the four different types, because I talk
[00:26:59] about it mainly from Dr.
[00:27:01] Gabor Mati, who talks about really, I
[00:27:03] love his statement of the more
[00:27:05] inauthentic you are to yourself, you will
[00:27:07] make you sick. Right.
[00:27:08] And that's exactly what I talk about here
[00:27:09] and help people with the more inauthentic,
[00:27:12] the more we are completely disconnected
[00:27:14] by probably all of those levels, which
[00:27:16] creates so much harm and
[00:27:19] dysregulation within our bodies and then
[00:27:21] our minds, our nervous systems are
[00:27:23] like, hello, isn't that OK?
[00:27:25] Right miserable.
[00:27:27] Yeah. So that's really interesting.
[00:27:28] Yeah. And that that topic of
[00:27:31] authenticity is something that is
[00:27:33] a part of what we're up to at Source,
[00:27:35] because we believe that if we can help
[00:27:37] you become energetically literate, then
[00:27:39] you can be more authentic.
[00:27:40] That the problem is, again, people
[00:27:43] have been taught to unsee themselves.
[00:27:45] So it's like, they don't even know how
[00:27:47] to be authentic.
[00:27:48] They don't even know where to be
[00:27:49] in with it. It's like we need.
[00:27:51] It's, you know, it's like going to
[00:27:53] PT is like, you can't go and do
[00:27:56] like the, you know, the jumbo
[00:27:57] heavy max out squat.
[00:27:59] Like you got to do the little movement.
[00:28:02] First, you know, the monotonous
[00:28:05] to bring kind of all of the necessary
[00:28:08] connections online so that you can
[00:28:09] actually handle the load, you know,
[00:28:11] and really throttle at your highest.
[00:28:13] But yeah, we got to slow it down
[00:28:15] because people will think I'm being
[00:28:18] honest. People will think I'm being
[00:28:20] authentic. And yet the body is an
[00:28:22] extension of the subconscious mind.
[00:28:24] And if they aren't in their bodies,
[00:28:26] they don't have access to what?
[00:28:27] What is it? Ninety five percent
[00:28:29] of their information?
[00:28:32] It's like something wild.
[00:28:33] Yeah, it's about five to ten percent
[00:28:35] of our mind is conscious.
[00:28:37] The rest is completely unconscious.
[00:28:39] And yeah, exactly.
[00:28:40] This is so important.
[00:28:41] I love this bridge of understanding.
[00:28:43] OK, yeah, we can talk about being
[00:28:45] inauthentic is creating harm
[00:28:47] for yourself. But then people are
[00:28:49] like, well, how the hell do I
[00:28:51] create that authenticity?
[00:28:52] I thought I was living the life
[00:28:54] I was supposed to or wanted to
[00:28:56] or whatever it may be.
[00:28:58] But yeah, that understanding of
[00:29:00] first, obviously, awareness,
[00:29:01] willingness and awareness of looking
[00:29:02] inward so that we can learn, right?
[00:29:04] Learning, learning about the self.
[00:29:06] Yeah, I think what's wild is that we
[00:29:08] have to learn to be
[00:29:10] in the ways in which you and I are
[00:29:12] talking about it.
[00:29:13] We're talking about it like to
[00:29:15] tell the truth, like to be
[00:29:16] authentic is to tell the truth.
[00:29:19] And some people don't even again
[00:29:21] know they're telling the truth
[00:29:23] to the best of their ability.
[00:29:24] But you're sitting with someone
[00:29:26] and you can feel that there is,
[00:29:29] you know, siloing happening
[00:29:31] like they they can't connect to
[00:29:33] that, but you can see it.
[00:29:34] You can feel it.
[00:29:36] And so the trust between,
[00:29:39] you know, the the parties
[00:29:41] like this is why therapy and somatic
[00:29:43] therapy is so important is because
[00:29:45] then the trust that can be
[00:29:46] established between you
[00:29:48] and your client, it's in that
[00:29:51] trust that they grow.
[00:29:54] But without it, they don't even
[00:29:55] know how to do it without the
[00:29:57] guidance because they're so far away.
[00:29:59] But if you're like, but look at your
[00:30:01] body posture right now when you're
[00:30:03] talking about that and they're like
[00:30:04] this, look at your what's this.
[00:30:06] And they're like, I don't know.
[00:30:08] It's like, just go in.
[00:30:10] You know, your body is such
[00:30:12] a it's such a tell.
[00:30:14] It's such a tell.
[00:30:15] But yeah, people people need
[00:30:17] training wheels for sure.
[00:30:18] Yeah, yeah, if we've never learned,
[00:30:20] we don't know.
[00:30:20] We have no idea.
[00:30:21] We're just operating off of what
[00:30:22] we've been told and what society
[00:30:24] tells us. And usually up into a
[00:30:26] certain point, I think the
[00:30:27] disconnection is safe.
[00:30:29] It's it's it's there's a there's a
[00:30:31] protective mechanism there, right?
[00:30:32] If we can be in this certain way,
[00:30:35] then maybe we won't be rejected or
[00:30:36] disconnected from others.
[00:30:38] And as our human nature is to be
[00:30:40] in connection with others, even
[00:30:42] like you were saying, just that
[00:30:43] trust with someone can open it up
[00:30:45] for you.
[00:30:46] But yeah, it's a protective mechanism
[00:30:47] most of the time.
[00:30:49] And so it's very I think to take
[00:30:51] that away or to go inward 100
[00:30:53] percent.
[00:30:54] If I didn't have the friendships
[00:30:56] around me that I did, I don't know
[00:30:58] if I could have given myself to
[00:31:00] the process.
[00:31:01] And also if the disconnection has
[00:31:03] happened, I also don't want people
[00:31:04] to feel shame around it because,
[00:31:05] again, it's highly intelligent.
[00:31:07] I know when my brother's accident
[00:31:09] happened, I like took all of my
[00:31:11] information and I threw it up
[00:31:13] into the attic only to unpack
[00:31:15] it 10 years later because I
[00:31:17] actually was finally available for
[00:31:19] it. You know, so the body is
[00:31:21] again, so so smart.
[00:31:23] But it does respond to invitation.
[00:31:26] The body responds to invitation
[00:31:29] to leaning back in to going slow
[00:31:31] to, you know, just not force.
[00:31:34] I don't think the body responds to
[00:31:35] force, but invitation, heart-centered
[00:31:37] invitations.
[00:31:38] Yeah, I found in my own journey
[00:31:40] that that slowness
[00:31:43] has been so integral
[00:31:45] and important. I mean, when I
[00:31:47] I talk about sometimes where I feel
[00:31:49] like I've lived like multiple
[00:31:50] millions of lives up and I'm sure
[00:31:52] you have. I'm only 35.
[00:31:54] Like I've gone through so many
[00:31:56] stages. I'm just that person that
[00:31:58] has the ego death when relives
[00:31:59] again and finds another journey.
[00:32:00] And but one of the biggest aha
[00:32:02] moments for me in the past couple
[00:32:03] years is recognizing how many
[00:32:05] times I would disconnect
[00:32:07] from my body, even though I've
[00:32:09] learned so much and I'm a
[00:32:10] somatic therapist and right,
[00:32:12] but I've had a mentor
[00:32:14] and a coach helped me really
[00:32:15] minutely understand look
[00:32:18] there. We were talking about
[00:32:19] this and you you went away.
[00:32:20] You dissociated or you turned
[00:32:22] or you, you know, and just that
[00:32:24] level of awareness, I think comes
[00:32:25] over time, of course,
[00:32:27] but you're right. The body speaks
[00:32:29] so loudly sometimes
[00:32:31] what we just don't realize it.
[00:32:32] Yeah, it has its tells.
[00:32:34] So if you just, you know, self
[00:32:35] study, just start to
[00:32:37] observe without judgment.
[00:32:39] I mean, I do do that.
[00:32:40] Oh, that's interesting.
[00:32:41] Yeah. It's just, yeah, you can
[00:32:44] you can bit by bit, though.
[00:32:45] It's leaving your breadcrumbs
[00:32:46] to all the way back.
[00:32:48] Breadcrumb by breadcrumb.
[00:32:49] So I'm curious from, yeah,
[00:32:51] my own personal and professional
[00:32:53] level of you've built this
[00:32:55] you or you have with a team
[00:32:57] and support and everything have
[00:32:58] built the source, right?
[00:32:59] And so much of your focus
[00:33:01] is is energy and renewable
[00:33:03] energy throughout this time.
[00:33:04] And I'm guessing to help
[00:33:06] without build this without
[00:33:08] the burnout that comes with it.
[00:33:09] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:33:10] So yes, my question is,
[00:33:12] what what have you learned along
[00:33:13] the way that's been really
[00:33:14] important for you to
[00:33:17] build this in a sustainable way
[00:33:18] without that burnout for
[00:33:21] source?
[00:33:22] We initially set out
[00:33:24] so my co-founder and I have
[00:33:25] been working with each other
[00:33:26] since 2014.
[00:33:27] But we started source
[00:33:30] in 2020.
[00:33:32] And it's just been an evolution.
[00:33:33] So we were working with
[00:33:35] individuals and then we had
[00:33:36] that head of HR and then
[00:33:38] it kind of turned everything
[00:33:40] to look at the scale
[00:33:42] at which we could serve
[00:33:43] and we could serve corporations
[00:33:46] and we could monitor
[00:33:47] the nervous system of culture
[00:33:49] in a way that keeps everybody's
[00:33:50] privacy private.
[00:33:51] All those things came in 2020.
[00:33:53] And when you
[00:33:55] you know, are in the tech
[00:33:56] startup world, you're also
[00:33:58] taught to go raise a shit
[00:34:00] ton of capital to make it happen.
[00:34:04] And we we put our
[00:34:06] decks together and I got
[00:34:08] my presenter on
[00:34:10] and peddling, you know,
[00:34:12] our presentation to
[00:34:14] hundreds of investors.
[00:34:16] And we got, you know,
[00:34:17] we got some offers.
[00:34:18] But then I had another
[00:34:19] light bulb.
[00:34:21] I can't
[00:34:24] take venture capital
[00:34:27] because there is a
[00:34:29] fiduciary responsibility
[00:34:31] to create a certain return
[00:34:33] for your board.
[00:34:34] And that was going to basically
[00:34:36] accelerate growth in such
[00:34:39] a way that would create
[00:34:41] the very problem we're solving.
[00:34:42] So it became like such
[00:34:44] a weird thing to stumble upon
[00:34:47] where you take capital from
[00:34:48] really matters.
[00:34:50] And so a part of the evolution
[00:34:52] has been OK, we were A,
[00:34:54] we were able to raise from our team.
[00:34:56] So my CTO had a big
[00:34:59] exit and he put money in.
[00:35:00] And then one of our channel
[00:35:01] partners was seeing all the proof
[00:35:03] points and she put money in.
[00:35:05] We've only taken money from the inside,
[00:35:08] which as a founder and CEO
[00:35:10] helps me sleep at night
[00:35:12] because I don't have people
[00:35:13] breathing down my bed.
[00:35:14] I have people that invested in the company
[00:35:16] because they believe in its values
[00:35:18] and they saw how it was working
[00:35:20] and they liked the way we were getting
[00:35:22] and done, which was in a regenerative way.
[00:35:24] So at this point in time,
[00:35:26] we are a regenerative business.
[00:35:28] And what that means is that
[00:35:31] as a regenerative business,
[00:35:32] you are trying to create
[00:35:34] an in spread value,
[00:35:36] R O E return on energy
[00:35:38] across the entire stakeholder chain.
[00:35:41] And you're trying to leave
[00:35:42] everything better than you found it.
[00:35:45] And it isn't just about returning a profit.
[00:35:48] So how we define value
[00:35:50] is very different as well.
[00:35:53] And that's been a surprising part of the journey.
[00:35:56] Again, I couldn't have known
[00:35:58] that we weren't going to take venture.
[00:36:00] I couldn't have known
[00:36:02] that we would be a regenerative business
[00:36:04] or that even was a thing.
[00:36:05] But now that I know it's a thing,
[00:36:07] it makes all the sense in the world.
[00:36:09] It aligns with the heart of the idea,
[00:36:12] which is
[00:36:14] your business is an energetic entity
[00:36:16] and that too needs to align with the logic of life.
[00:36:19] It needs to have adaptiveness and responsiveness.
[00:36:23] It needs to have inclusivity and diversity.
[00:36:26] It needs to have everything,
[00:36:29] all these qualities that would make a garden grow.
[00:36:31] It can't be a monocrop.
[00:36:34] We can't just keep putting GMO seeds
[00:36:37] into the earth and robbing the soil of its nutrients.
[00:36:41] Like we really have to make sure
[00:36:43] that this whole thing stays fortified.
[00:36:45] So the rate of growth really matters.
[00:36:48] And so we no longer are trying to be a unicorn.
[00:36:52] We see ourselves as a hummingbird, you know?
[00:36:54] It's like it's not going to be this big.
[00:36:56] We're now a boutique,
[00:36:58] and we are a reminder of what is life affirming here.
[00:37:02] And if that wants to grow, it will grow,
[00:37:04] but it's not because we put a bunch of miracle grow,
[00:37:08] synthetic miracle, grow on it.
[00:37:09] It's because it wanted to happen,
[00:37:11] which exactly which says so much about the heart
[00:37:13] of what you're doing and how is
[00:37:17] regenerating on its own because of how valuable it is
[00:37:20] and how much it's helping, I'm assuming.
[00:37:22] And that's really interesting.
[00:37:23] That's really cool to hear.
[00:37:25] Yeah. Yeah. And what's so awesome
[00:37:27] is that if you build in a regenerative way,
[00:37:30] your creations can heal you.
[00:37:32] So a lot of what happens in business and entrepreneurship
[00:37:36] is that your creations turn into a prison of your own making.
[00:37:41] But if you build it regeneratively with certain values,
[00:37:45] the very act of it, the very act of building it is healing.
[00:37:50] And that's just like another thing that I didn't see coming
[00:37:53] could bring tears to my eyes.
[00:37:54] I'm just like, it's so wild.
[00:37:58] But that's grace. That's grace, right, Grace?
[00:38:00] Exactly. That's grace.
[00:38:03] It helps you believe in life's design.
[00:38:06] Like it helps you believe in life's design.
[00:38:10] Yeah. I very much so, yes, named my podcast,
[00:38:14] Heal with Grace for my name, but very much so.
[00:38:17] I mean, healing with grace is so much.
[00:38:19] It's not the heart and the core of what is needed
[00:38:21] and something I say on here all the time.
[00:38:24] Compassion and grace takes you so much further than you realize.
[00:38:27] Actually, it's you can't really go without it.
[00:38:29] You can't grow. You can't continue.
[00:38:31] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:38:33] Wow. Thank you so much for sharing all of your
[00:38:38] insights and everything about source and all of that energy,
[00:38:42] medicine and regeneration.
[00:38:44] It's been really enlightening.
[00:38:45] So thank you. You're so welcome.
[00:38:47] Thank you for having me.
[00:38:48] Is there anything else that you feel like needs to be shared
[00:38:53] based on what you're doing or the messages we've talked about
[00:38:56] that we haven't? It doesn't have to.
[00:38:57] I just like that. Yeah.
[00:38:58] I mean, if these kinds of things perk your interest,
[00:39:03] we host seasonal cohorts called The Practice.
[00:39:08] And Grace, be my VIP guest if you want to join.
[00:39:11] But it is a container by which you can grow in your energetic
[00:39:16] literacy using the tools and and orientations that I've talked about today.
[00:39:21] Wow. OK. Thank you.
[00:39:23] And we'll, of course, link everything below.
[00:39:26] All right. Appreciate it.
[00:39:28] Thank you so much. Yes.
[00:39:29] And I will see you all next time.
[00:39:31] Bye.
[00:39:33] If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to me
[00:39:36] if you could do these couple things.
[00:39:38] One, go to the Heal With Grace Show page wherever you listen
[00:39:42] and tap the plus sign or click on the follow button
[00:39:44] so you don't miss an episode.
[00:39:46] It helps both of us out.
[00:39:48] While you're there, if you could give a five star review
[00:39:50] so that this podcast can reach more people,
[00:39:53] it would mean so much to me.
[00:39:55] So I can continue sharing episodes that help you as well as others.
[00:39:59] Thanks for listening and I hope this brings you hope on your journey.