The Root Cause Behind Chronic Symptoms in High-Achieving Women with Ashley Novak, FNTP

[00:00:00] I told one of my clients earlier, like she had H. pylori, which is a stomach infection.
[00:00:03] She has a parasite.
[00:00:05] And yes, those can be creating active present day symptomology that you're experiencing,
[00:00:11] but your body, it's like a scab that's never healing.
[00:00:14] What created the wound to begin with?
[00:00:16] And it's usually what weakened our system to begin with and what made us susceptible
[00:00:22] to those conditions because your body is freaking robust and is such a miracle and
[00:00:28] is exposed to stuff all the time and is supposed to be able to get rid of it.
[00:00:32] But if it's weakened and almost always stress, you can have a variety of different
[00:00:38] umbrellas of stresses.
[00:00:39] Usually for most of us, it's a mental emotional state.
[00:00:43] Hey there and welcome to the Heal with Grace podcast.
[00:00:46] I'm your host, Grace Secker, and I'm a holistic licensed therapist and nervous
[00:00:51] system coach who believes that the chronic and often unseen symptoms
[00:00:56] you're living with are a sign of something deeper going on.
[00:00:59] A sign that your nervous system needs attention.
[00:01:02] In each episode, I'll share the science behind the most common chronic health
[00:01:06] disorders plus holistic tips using mental, physical and spiritual practices.
[00:01:11] You'll hear what I've learned in my journey and the true stories from our
[00:01:14] trusted guests so you can feel less alone in your experience and give yourself
[00:01:18] grace no matter what you're going through.
[00:01:21] So without further ado, settle in and get cozy.
[00:01:24] It's time to heal with Grace.
[00:01:25] Ashley, I'm so happy that you're here.
[00:01:28] Thanks for coming on the Heal with Grace podcast.
[00:01:31] Thank you.
[00:01:33] Thanks for having me.
[00:01:34] I appreciate it.
[00:01:36] Yeah, it's something we've talked about for a while.
[00:01:38] FYI of people listening.
[00:01:40] Ashley and I are friends in real life.
[00:01:42] We have a co-BFF and we met through her and have, you know, hung out a few
[00:01:49] times and have similar but different frames of work.
[00:01:53] And like, I think they blend so beautifully.
[00:01:55] And so I'm really excited to hear from the functional nutrition perspective as
[00:01:59] people always have so many questions around that.
[00:02:01] All right.
[00:02:02] Without me going into so much more, let people know who you are, what you do
[00:02:07] and a little bit about yourself.
[00:02:10] Hi, I shared you said I'm Ashley.
[00:02:12] I'm a functional nutritional therapy practitioner.
[00:02:17] Say that five times fast.
[00:02:18] I'm also a restorative health practitioner.
[00:02:21] My specialties are in gut health and fertility.
[00:02:25] But as I say, practitioners kind of have to know a little bit about everything.
[00:02:29] But those are the main go-tos that I help a lot of my clients with is related
[00:02:34] to gut health, fertility issues, and all of this could be chronic underneath
[00:02:38] the umbrella, you name it.
[00:02:39] So that's what I do.
[00:02:42] And I love it.
[00:02:43] How'd you get into it?
[00:02:44] I'm not sure I actually know that.
[00:02:46] That's a great question.
[00:02:47] So I have a background, my degrees in biochemistry, and I started
[00:02:52] experiencing my own health issues.
[00:02:55] So weirdly enough, fall of 2020, I had applied to two different programs
[00:03:00] to be a naturopathic doctor in fall of 2020.
[00:03:04] And then also to do a doctorate in acupuncture and traditional
[00:03:09] Chinese medicine and herbalism.
[00:03:11] Two very different programs.
[00:03:14] And I was super excited.
[00:03:16] I felt like I spent years trying to figure out the route I wanted to go.
[00:03:19] I debated between nutrition and all these other things.
[00:03:22] And the reason what kind of pushed me over the edge was I was a psycho
[00:03:27] high endurance athlete to the point where I fried my system out.
[00:03:32] And I had been a marathon runner for 12 years.
[00:03:38] Mom had died.
[00:03:39] And then I got bored of running and started doing triathlons
[00:03:42] and started dipping my toes into the Iron Man series and all these things.
[00:03:46] And my body one day, I remember I had a marathon.
[00:03:49] Two weeks later, I had a half Iron Man and within I would say a week
[00:03:53] I struggled to get out of bed and I'm a morning person.
[00:03:57] So that was very bizarre to me.
[00:03:59] And then as someone who had kind of battled acne on and off my entire life,
[00:04:03] my face exploded and I couldn't figure out what it was.
[00:04:08] I tried every diet underneath the sun.
[00:04:10] I went vegan.
[00:04:11] I eliminated dairy.
[00:04:13] I'd eliminated gluten and I couldn't figure out what was going on.
[00:04:16] And it was showing up in different parts of my face.
[00:04:19] My hair stopped growing.
[00:04:20] It started falling out.
[00:04:22] I was waking up chronically at 3 through 30 in the morning.
[00:04:24] My sleep was poor.
[00:04:26] I just didn't feel like myself and I couldn't figure out what was wrong.
[00:04:29] And that functional medicine wasn't super talked about or really heard of.
[00:04:34] And I was living in the Midwest at the time.
[00:04:36] That for sure is very more traditional sense.
[00:04:41] And I kind of started doing my own research at that point, moved to LA for a bit,
[00:04:46] started hearing different communities there talk about functional medicine
[00:04:50] and root cause.
[00:04:51] And I was like, what is that?
[00:04:52] And eventually found that program.
[00:04:56] Covid hit.
[00:04:58] I got stuck in Colorado at that time.
[00:05:00] And I met a girl here who run who ran her own practice
[00:05:03] that I became really good friends with.
[00:05:05] And I was like, how can you talk the same jargon?
[00:05:08] I've always been a health nut and nerd.
[00:05:10] My entire life has always been quite health conscious, including my family.
[00:05:14] And she told me the program she went through and all the things.
[00:05:17] So I switched programs, went to a different schooling program
[00:05:22] and have just nerded out ever since completely healed my body.
[00:05:28] It was fascinating how quickly I could do that once I was really intentional about it.
[00:05:32] And I'm like, more people need to know this.
[00:05:35] Like, why didn't anyone tell me?
[00:05:38] And so that's where I kind of dove in.
[00:05:40] Now that I'm in my mid 30s, mid upper years,
[00:05:42] I'm also very passionate about fertility because I'm not married.
[00:05:46] I don't have kids yet.
[00:05:47] And I want to, as I'm optimizing my body, teach other women
[00:05:51] and how like you don't have to be 29 and having kids,
[00:05:54] you can have kids later in life and all the pieces that I've seen missing.
[00:05:57] So, yeah, that's kind of where I'm at with all of this.
[00:06:00] OK, I have multiple questions about that.
[00:06:01] Do you mind if I stick here for a second?
[00:06:03] Diving, girl, let's go.
[00:06:05] Yeah, this is good.
[00:06:06] We're going to go in many places.
[00:06:08] So because you and I can go deep, we can go deep fast.
[00:06:11] So first and foremost, you describe the scenario that so many probably
[00:06:17] like everyone listening to this is in when they are what they think
[00:06:21] they're like thriving in their life, right?
[00:06:22] Like there's a lot of intense athletes and people
[00:06:25] who have been living their life in that way for a long time, right?
[00:06:28] Or maybe they were like at the top of their career
[00:06:30] or like they had all these things happening and going, right?
[00:06:33] And then something happens to their body and they're like,
[00:06:35] what the hell? I thought everything was fine.
[00:06:39] How do you conceptualize that time now?
[00:06:40] Like how do you say this is what was happening?
[00:06:43] And this is why my body reacted like in your words.
[00:06:45] How do you explain that?
[00:06:46] Yeah, I think like one, I'm the oldest daughter says a lot.
[00:06:51] Hi, what's up?
[00:06:52] Eldest daughter syndrome.
[00:06:54] Number two, I was I had a mentor.
[00:06:56] I bless his heart.
[00:06:57] He's one of my favorite people and are we allowed to curse on here?
[00:07:01] Or no, I was like, should I?
[00:07:02] OK, he bluntly said to me.
[00:07:04] And this is one of the reasons why I have so much respect for him.
[00:07:06] He's like, he was so frustrated with me one day.
[00:07:09] He's like, if you'd spend half the fucking time that you do on your mental health
[00:07:14] and understanding yourself emotionally, as you do on your physical,
[00:07:17] you'd get it by now.
[00:07:19] And I'm like, damn.
[00:07:22] And I always say people in the high endurance world, there's two things.
[00:07:25] And this is in most fields, like especially high functioning in any capacity.
[00:07:29] Like I was a valedictorian.
[00:07:31] I graduated with honors.
[00:07:32] Like I was like hammer mode.
[00:07:35] He called me the hammer.
[00:07:37] If if everything was a nail.
[00:07:39] And so I was like, I can do it.
[00:07:40] I'm going to get it.
[00:07:41] And I wasn't slowing down.
[00:07:43] And in the high endurance world, I always say, you're either running
[00:07:45] towards something or running away from something.
[00:07:47] And at that point in time, my mom had just died.
[00:07:49] I was her full time caregiver for about two years beforehand.
[00:07:52] And I when I entered the triathlon world, I started running in college.
[00:07:57] And I hated running, running up.
[00:07:59] I was like softball, I will play a short sprints here or there.
[00:08:02] But I started running because it was the only thing that could shut my brain off.
[00:08:05] Do that runner's high.
[00:08:06] It's how I had therapy.
[00:08:08] My parents got divorced when I was in college, and that's when I started running.
[00:08:12] And that was my therapy all the way up until my mom died.
[00:08:15] Then I transitioned into the triathlon world, which was another distraction.
[00:08:19] And my body, you know, at that time, I definitely wasn't fueling myself enough.
[00:08:23] I just didn't know I was training with men who I was pushing myself
[00:08:28] to their level and my body's like, we are not a small man.
[00:08:32] Like, what are you doing?
[00:08:33] And I was working a lot.
[00:08:35] I was flying a lot for work, existing on minimal sleep, you know,
[00:08:38] just kind of like, go, go, go, go, still mindset, just not resting
[00:08:43] and also continually living my life without saying I wasn't saying no in my life.
[00:08:49] I didn't know how to use my voice.
[00:08:50] I was completely living out of alignment.
[00:08:53] And again, I thought I was doing all the right things, you know,
[00:08:56] and I truly was not a lot of all of that was adding to it, for sure.
[00:09:02] The way you describe that coming from a functional practitioner, I love.
[00:09:06] I mean, that's why you're here.
[00:09:08] Because yeah, like you treat people on a functional physical level, right?
[00:09:12] But like the way that you described when I asked you why that happened,
[00:09:16] you describe mental and emotional causes, not physical causes.
[00:09:20] You didn't say, well, this was happening in my gut
[00:09:21] and this was happening in my cells, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
[00:09:25] Why did you start there?
[00:09:26] Like this is great.
[00:09:27] Because everything comes back to that.
[00:09:30] It's beautiful to me where like, yes, you might have a parasite.
[00:09:36] You might have mold exposure.
[00:09:38] You might have all of these things.
[00:09:40] But the way if your body might respond differently to a mold exposure
[00:09:44] versus how my body does.
[00:09:45] Now, yes, that could be very dependent on things like genetics
[00:09:48] and all of that stuff.
[00:09:50] But you know, I told one of my clients earlier, like she had H.
[00:09:53] Pylori, which is a stomach infection.
[00:09:55] She has a parasite and yes, those can be creating active present day
[00:10:00] symptomology that you're experiencing.
[00:10:02] But your body, it's like a scab that's never healing.
[00:10:06] What created the womb to begin with?
[00:10:08] And it's usually what's weakened our system to begin with
[00:10:12] and what made us susceptible to those conditions because your body
[00:10:16] is freaking robust and is such a miracle and is exposed to stuff
[00:10:21] all the time and is supposed to be able to get rid of it.
[00:10:25] But if it's weakened and almost always stress, and again, you can
[00:10:29] have a variety of different umbrellas of stresses.
[00:10:32] Usually for most of us, it's a mental emotional state.
[00:10:36] It's the same thing that you can out psych yourself into doing anything.
[00:10:39] That reverse effect is also happening within our bodies
[00:10:43] that most of us are completely unaware of.
[00:10:46] I'm fine. Everything's great.
[00:10:48] I would have told you that when I was going there.
[00:10:50] Like, I'm not like, I don't know what you're talking about.
[00:10:53] You know, so, oh, yeah.
[00:10:54] What do you mean by the like, you said the reverse effect can happen
[00:10:59] by psyching ourselves out or psyching ourselves up?
[00:11:01] Say more. So like as much as we can out think like that neural feedback
[00:11:05] and rewiring of, you know, it's like they say, believe something
[00:11:08] like when you're manifesting, like believe that it's already there.
[00:11:10] It's happening and you'll create it.
[00:11:13] The same thing unconsciously is going on that all of these thought
[00:11:19] patterns that we have, so especially with high functioning women.
[00:11:22] I feel like just most women in general, we will go through traumatic things
[00:11:26] in our life, not also realize how traumatic or intense they were.
[00:11:29] Again, someone doesn't have to be beating you to afford to be a traumatic experience.
[00:11:33] And when you are moving through this, we will compare it.
[00:11:36] Like I was very guilty of that.
[00:11:38] Well, this isn't as bad as it used to be.
[00:11:40] And I was in a chronic state of fight or flight of survival mode
[00:11:44] for 15 years and I had no idea.
[00:11:46] Like my mom died and I thought like, that's it.
[00:11:49] That that chapter has closed.
[00:11:51] I'm great, you know, I can move on and we're just going to go into the next thing.
[00:11:55] But I was not actually dealing with the repercussions that was actually
[00:12:00] at a cellular level, the energy that my body was like, no, we are
[00:12:05] we haven't moved through this and you are immensely distracting yourself
[00:12:09] and moving through it and actually you're not energetically.
[00:12:13] And so to me, the inverse is as much as we have this destination
[00:12:18] of being able to call whatever into our life or magnetize whatever.
[00:12:24] But that same frequency is still occurring at a really deep cellular level
[00:12:28] with the shit you haven't moved through.
[00:12:31] No, so, yeah.
[00:12:34] Yeah, exactly.
[00:12:36] It all, it all goes together, right?
[00:12:38] Yeah.
[00:12:38] So like, OK, so as I talk about, yes, you can have like you just said, right?
[00:12:43] You can have parasites, you can have mold in your body, you can have
[00:12:45] age, pliolori, all the things, right?
[00:12:48] And so when you see that when someone comes to you and see those things,
[00:12:51] you know, you have them do the testing you want them to do and it pops up, right?
[00:12:55] Everybody's body probably has something, especially if they're
[00:12:57] coming to a functional practitioner.
[00:12:59] So how do you approach that knowing that you have all of this?
[00:13:02] OK, yes, it's mental, emotional, nervous system.
[00:13:04] Yes, obviously, there's physical like what do you do with that?
[00:13:07] That's a great question.
[00:13:08] It's definitely a complex one because I think, yeah, it depends on
[00:13:14] my one of my gifts like you is pattern recognition.
[00:13:18] And so someone might be telling me about their moldy house,
[00:13:21] but I can even tell in the way that they're speaking and the words
[00:13:25] they're choosing in their like, even if it's a virtual experience,
[00:13:28] I can feel their frequency and I can tell how they rationalize
[00:13:34] things in their life.
[00:13:35] They're probably avoiding and we tend to make things matter of fact,
[00:13:41] put things in boxes so they're easy to understand for our brains.
[00:13:45] But when I'm not emotionally attached to their situation and I'm zooming out
[00:13:49] because I can see the forest, they're just staring at the tree.
[00:13:51] And I'm like, I can see the forest.
[00:13:53] Is it bear, is it their drought going on or in fall, winter?
[00:13:56] Like, where is this at?
[00:13:57] I will usually focus on nervous system first because whether or not
[00:14:01] someone thinks that's a part of it or someone's come to me and
[00:14:04] they've done all of this work with other practitioners.
[00:14:06] I'm like, like, let me get my hands on you and see like
[00:14:09] what still is sticky.
[00:14:11] And sometimes it is a gradual process with some of these people.
[00:14:14] Like I've had people open up to me after a few months that I knew
[00:14:18] something was going on, but they're still building their trust with me.
[00:14:21] And they've told me insane things that they've been through that
[00:14:25] they didn't share on the initial consultation forums or all of this.
[00:14:28] And so it's building the trust between me and my client to
[00:14:33] starting sometimes with something small, because especially for
[00:14:35] high functioning people or recovering perfectionist, I say is type A,
[00:14:39] is you can't throw the kitchen sink at the wall and just see what sticks.
[00:14:44] For some people, and a lot of times we think, again,
[00:14:48] oh, I can handle more.
[00:14:49] It's like biting off that I can chew.
[00:14:52] And then you see the sliding back down the wall, you know?
[00:14:55] So I will usually start with something small for them as far as nervous system.
[00:15:02] I will try to warm up with them of like, hey,
[00:15:04] maybe this person would be good to talk to you.
[00:15:06] Like someone like you, like your name isn't a lot of the protocols.
[00:15:08] I write like, hey, great.
[00:15:10] So it'd be a great person to talk to you or my friend Celeste.
[00:15:13] And starting really, really small with them when it comes to that.
[00:15:16] And even with the supplements, because I find people use that as a crutch,
[00:15:20] like, oh, I'm just going to take all these things.
[00:15:22] Like, yes, I might need to give their stomach if they're dealing
[00:15:24] with insane acid reflux, I'll give them something small,
[00:15:28] but I'm not someone that's like, here's 20 supplements.
[00:15:30] I think a lot of functional medicine practitioners make a huge mistake.
[00:15:33] It's a green pharmacy.
[00:15:34] They're just like, here's all the shit.
[00:15:36] Take it, check in with me in three months.
[00:15:38] But really, most people do need handholding.
[00:15:41] They need full accountability.
[00:15:43] They need to be called forward in a beautiful way.
[00:15:45] And they need someone mirroring back to them on a regular basis of where
[00:15:51] their habits are sabotaging their actual progress.
[00:15:55] When you said like habits, can their self-sabotaging habits, right?
[00:16:00] Yeah, 100%.
[00:16:01] We see it all the time, but people don't, we can't see our own all the time.
[00:16:04] Right?
[00:16:04] No.
[00:16:05] That's, I mean, that's literally why I say on here that I've never not, I mean,
[00:16:10] there's periods of me not having mentors or help, right?
[00:16:13] But like, I can't see my own stuff.
[00:16:15] I like, I need the help too.
[00:16:16] So what would be an example of the people that you see?
[00:16:20] What are the habits that they carry that they do that are, yeah,
[00:16:23] self-sabotaging their health, but they're not realizing it.
[00:16:26] Yeah.
[00:16:26] And these are people like, let's take another therapist, for example,
[00:16:29] a client of mine knows all the language, knows how to read people, knows all the things.
[00:16:37] When, but completely internally, nervous system dysregulated themselves and very
[00:16:43] stuck in that place for the last year to two years.
[00:16:47] Massive GI issues because of that.
[00:16:49] And, you know, again, those are just by-products in my opinion.
[00:16:55] And so for this person, like when I was listening to just like her daily,
[00:16:59] I was like, tell me what your struggles with sleep is another big symptom.
[00:17:02] What's your nighttime routine before you go to bed?
[00:17:04] Like, how are you actually unwinding down?
[00:17:06] And so many of us go to the TV.
[00:17:09] I'm watching my TV show with my partner.
[00:17:11] Like we develop these habits with our partners, especially that we think we're
[00:17:16] connecting, which is beautiful, but we're still massively neglecting what we might
[00:17:21] need in that moment.
[00:17:22] And so I was like her one step that I want her to work on.
[00:17:25] I was like, I want you to even just give yourself 10 minutes at night
[00:17:28] without your partner and want you to go off into a separate room.
[00:17:31] Your partner can be a part of it if you want to, if they're willing to engage
[00:17:35] for accountability reasons, to give yourself, like, figure out for you what helps
[00:17:40] you unwind, is that sitting there kind of like swaying back and forth, is that
[00:17:44] movement, is that sitting still, is that your legs up against the wall,
[00:17:48] putting on like 432 hertz in your ear or like bird noises, you know,
[00:17:53] whatever works for you to really help your nervous system start to calm
[00:17:57] down before you go to bed, because you're just stimulating yourself with a screen
[00:18:02] and then wondering why you're struggling to go to bed at night.
[00:18:05] You know, that's one habit.
[00:18:07] The client that I had before this, she is definitely like a workaholic.
[00:18:11] Also, GI issues.
[00:18:13] This morning, she had to make a decision.
[00:18:14] Do I get up and do my morning routine, like that, that, that, which I would
[00:18:18] love for her to have both, or do I get more sleep?
[00:18:21] And I was like, well, what did you choose, you know?
[00:18:24] And because normally she's existing on like five hours of sleep.
[00:18:27] And because she works really late and she's like, I actually chose sleep.
[00:18:30] And I was like, yes, because she only got six hours and 10 minutes of sleep after that.
[00:18:35] But it was 40 minutes more than she typically get.
[00:18:38] And so I was like, that's a win.
[00:18:40] You know, so like we're starting
[00:18:42] with small things where yes, a morning routine, I'd love you to go outside
[00:18:47] and get sunshine and be up for the sunrise and do all these things.
[00:18:52] But for a lot of people, her whole thing was like, well, how do I do it all?
[00:18:56] You know, and I'm like, we we can't 180 what's already pretty in concrete already.
[00:19:04] We have to go small.
[00:19:05] And so for her, the chronic lack of sleep has been sabotaging.
[00:19:10] And I was so proud of her today that she got an extra.
[00:19:13] She chose an extra 40 minutes of sleep.
[00:19:15] I was like, like this is huge.
[00:19:17] So sometimes it's just something small like that where,
[00:19:21] you know, there's a whole slew of other stuff I could go up like chronic
[00:19:24] not drinking enough water, like we wonder why we can't poop.
[00:19:27] You know what I mean?
[00:19:28] Just like so it's like little things like that.
[00:19:32] I think the what it does come down to if we like quickly tie it back to the
[00:19:36] emotional state for her when she's also an eldest daughter.
[00:19:39] I was like, where in your life are you saying no?
[00:19:42] Where are you saying no?
[00:19:44] And that's something that's big for her that she's working on to learn how
[00:19:49] to say no more where she's structuring her jobs because entrepreneurs here,
[00:19:54] we love I quit my nine to five so I can make my own schedule.
[00:19:57] And I'm like, you're burning out more than you did when you were working in nine to
[00:20:00] five, like, where's your buffer?
[00:20:04] Those are like little things that, you know, need to be worked on for sure.
[00:20:08] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 100% on that.
[00:20:11] I mean, I could go on all day about this.
[00:20:13] I could talk about all day for podcast.
[00:20:16] Yeah, I know, but I will have to say first that I really appreciate and love
[00:20:20] how much you bring in all the factors, right?
[00:20:22] Like you're obviously looking at the testing and like what's underneath the hood
[00:20:25] and all the things on a physical level.
[00:20:27] But so much of what you just said and what you talk about is
[00:20:31] emotions, sleep, like the basics of taking care of yourself or being a human, right?
[00:20:39] Like where are you scheduling fun, you know what I mean?
[00:20:41] Like where are you scheduling joy in your life?
[00:20:44] And, you know, I'll hear people with every excuse under the sun.
[00:20:48] And I'm just like, nope.
[00:20:50] Like you're already hitting a roadblock because of your own thinking around it,
[00:20:54] you know, everyone has the same 24 hours.
[00:20:57] We have different scenarios.
[00:20:59] Some of us have kids, some of us are working multiple jobs.
[00:21:02] Well, if we can't five minutes in our day, you know what I mean?
[00:21:06] Like we got to we got to really rework this a little bit.
[00:21:10] Some of us struggling, asking for help or receiving help.
[00:21:13] If we're feeling like we're drowning and like, do you ask anyone for help?
[00:21:15] Nope. How are you when someone wants to offer you help?
[00:21:18] Nope. You know, I'm like,
[00:21:22] where can we work on shifting the narrative or like
[00:21:26] getting it to wiggle a little bit more?
[00:21:28] And I for a lot of people, it's just the awareness of step one.
[00:21:31] And I think this is why a lot of I love my function in medicine world.
[00:21:35] But I think I mean, you've experienced this, why so many things fail
[00:21:39] and why I get people.
[00:21:41] I'm usually the last person people will come to because they've done all
[00:21:44] the things and I was like, I can tell what's still a mission.
[00:21:49] So and sometimes they don't like it.
[00:21:51] They're squirming, squirming to avoid.
[00:21:56] I get it. It's hard.
[00:21:57] You have to you have to die.
[00:21:59] It's like you're going through your
[00:22:01] dark night of the soul, so to say.
[00:22:04] Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, when you have like
[00:22:07] when you've gone down all and you think that you overturned every,
[00:22:11] you know, stone and gone through every door and tried all the things
[00:22:14] it's then you're jaded, then you're exhausted, then you don't know what else to do,
[00:22:18] but also so you're not going to not try.
[00:22:21] At least that's usually the people that come to me too, right?
[00:22:24] Like last case scenario, almost like a give up, like, all right, fine.
[00:22:27] I guess I'll go toss the towel in.
[00:22:29] Let's see. Yeah, I guess I'll have my nervous system now.
[00:22:33] Yeah.
[00:22:35] And like, yeah, obviously, totally get it.
[00:22:38] I get it.
[00:22:40] societal expectations are reversed and they're a little bit effed up in terms
[00:22:43] of it's really hard to go do something fun or say no.
[00:22:47] And if that's hard for you, there's an under
[00:22:49] belief, like, what does that mean to take time away and pause or be with the people
[00:22:54] that you want to be with a little bit more, but then there's this nagging thing
[00:22:56] about work and success that you really are told to.
[00:23:00] Yeah, the shoulds, all the shoulds,
[00:23:03] knows things like everything that you're saying.
[00:23:05] And obviously that I'm saying
[00:23:08] the biggest nervous system disruptors, right, the biggest cause to leading
[00:23:12] down the rabbit hole of your body's breaking down or your body's like
[00:23:16] experiencing X, Y, and Z gut issues.
[00:23:19] And then, OK, this is a great that way then into because I wanted to talk about the
[00:23:23] you've posted a couple of times and you even said on here talking about female
[00:23:26] bodies, difference between that, right?
[00:23:28] Versus the male body, you mentioned it in your history with being an athlete.
[00:23:32] Yep. So I knew even there was a post you did.
[00:23:35] You talked about the fact that women weren't included in medical research
[00:23:37] until 1993. So there's so much of how we've been treated based on the male body.
[00:23:43] So I know it's kind of a broad area, like you can go in many different directions,
[00:23:46] but like I just want you to speak to it because it's mind boggling the amount
[00:23:51] of women I talk to that are like, huh, like, OK, for example,
[00:23:55] I don't think this is helping you.
[00:23:56] I think it's hurting you.
[00:23:57] First of all, fasting was based off the male body and so many other things.
[00:24:01] And you're not actually giving your body enough fuel.
[00:24:03] So then there's anxiety is a decrease.
[00:24:05] There's like so many things, right?
[00:24:07] So even just that example, we don't know, just do what we're getting.
[00:24:12] Well, the internet is so loud.
[00:24:14] It's like, how do we sift through what's as a practitioner?
[00:24:17] Like most of my feed is other practitioners.
[00:24:21] And I will see one person say one thing, literally swipe up.
[00:24:24] The next person is counteracting what the other practitioner just said.
[00:24:28] And I was like, oh, my God, like this is confusing for me.
[00:24:32] Talk to us about even just like how you would introduce to a client or someone
[00:24:38] that, hey, you know, this medical advice, like we don't actually know the effects
[00:24:42] of it on women or how do you even just explain that topic to someone?
[00:24:46] Yeah, like I think like the fasting at the one I brought was a really great question.
[00:24:50] And I think it depends on who you talk to.
[00:24:52] I know there's a woman who wrote a book on fasting and people like, well,
[00:24:54] what about that? And like, well, what about perimenopause and postmenopause?
[00:24:59] That's different than someone's in their fertile years.
[00:25:00] It's like, get it.
[00:25:04] But again, I think it's a case by case situation.
[00:25:07] Like I've had men come to me who are fasting and I was like, I don't think this is helping you.
[00:25:11] And then they started eating and they're like, I feel so much better.
[00:25:13] I was like, mm hmm.
[00:25:14] Like, again, it's different cultures, ethnicities, genetics.
[00:25:19] But I'll explain, especially to a woman, I think we tend to we've been taught
[00:25:23] most of our life not to trust our body and to give agency away to other
[00:25:30] people to and I get it, we're curious people.
[00:25:32] Women are very good about researching where, you know, most of my friends who are
[00:25:37] like male men coaches and whatnot, their highest gender population is women,
[00:25:42] not even men, and because women are always wanting to learn and that curiosity
[00:25:47] that we naturally have, which I think is beautiful and something I want to
[00:25:51] acknowledge and at the same time, it's learning to take our power back
[00:25:55] because a lot of the times our bodies are already telling us what we need.
[00:25:59] We just start listening to it or overriding it or we've been taught to not
[00:26:04] trust our intuitions and not trust ourselves of like, you know what I mean?
[00:26:09] And so as a woman, depending on what the question is, I'll work with that.
[00:26:13] But really, I think science is great.
[00:26:17] And I always say I'm a science nerd with a soulful range.
[00:26:21] I'm a big fan of, yes, having scientific studies and having that stuff to back it up.
[00:26:27] But this is where like women were the medicine women.
[00:26:30] That was one of my posts is it's like we were the healers, we were the sages back
[00:26:35] in the day, we didn't have double blindsided studies to prove something
[00:26:40] that we already felt or we would see every day with working with people
[00:26:44] because we're so in tune with back in the day with ourselves and then with
[00:26:49] just the body in general.
[00:26:51] And we've really lost sight of that.
[00:26:53] And so for most, especially the women that I'll work with is teaching them
[00:26:58] how to come back into that.
[00:27:01] You know, it's the same reason where someone comes to me like, I know I should
[00:27:04] be drinking more water and like, why aren't you doing it?
[00:27:08] You know what you should be doing, but we're still not doing it.
[00:27:11] Why? You know what I mean?
[00:27:14] Like, that's my biggest thing.
[00:27:15] So a lot of these studies that are coming out with women.
[00:27:19] I'm excited that it's better and more energy and money.
[00:27:25] Fortunately, we're still very far away from the comparison to men.
[00:27:29] But a lot of these studies that come out, I kind of just like horribly say
[00:27:33] I'm like, duh, I'm like, we already knew that like, thank you for validating
[00:27:37] something that I already knew that now that it's a scientific study,
[00:27:41] you're going to listen to me and you're going to believe me, you know?
[00:27:44] And it's it's just fascinating to me.
[00:27:47] So for me, as a woman, it's not just about taking your health back.
[00:27:51] It's about taking your agency back.
[00:27:53] It's about taking your voice back.
[00:27:54] It's about taking, again, why so many women suffer from thyroid issues.
[00:27:58] It's that throat chakra.
[00:27:59] You're literally not using your voice.
[00:28:02] You're not speaking your truth.
[00:28:04] You're not standing up for yourself.
[00:28:05] You're not saying no.
[00:28:07] It's the same thing.
[00:28:08] Dr. Gabor Maté always says is, you know, we have 80% of autoimmune
[00:28:12] conditions and we've been taught that to like be a doormat.
[00:28:15] Don't be that girl. Be the good girl.
[00:28:16] I'm like, no, and this is why everyone's saying like, be the bitch,
[00:28:19] like stand up for yourself, you know, say no.
[00:28:24] If you disappoint people, great, that means you're doing some right.
[00:28:28] You know what I mean?
[00:28:29] So that's for me is like coming back to this inner knowing that divine feminine
[00:28:34] wisdom that I think if we've seen on social media, it's like, oh,
[00:28:38] I'm going to like lay down in the tracks and just be this fairy in a field.
[00:28:42] Yes, we need that rest.
[00:28:43] That's amazing. And I need your rage.
[00:28:45] I need your feralness.
[00:28:47] I need you to express yourself in the paradigm that it is to be a woman.
[00:28:52] It's not laid out in the tracks and call it a day.
[00:28:55] You know what I mean?
[00:28:56] So I don't know if that, yeah, it's this beginning.
[00:29:00] Yeah, we need to remember again, we need to remember.
[00:29:03] That's why I try to teach women remember.
[00:29:05] Yes, who you are and what this is most common I see.
[00:29:10] And I'm the same like you mentioned, we're very similar in like pattern recognition.
[00:29:13] And I can, I can talk to someone for 10 minutes,
[00:29:16] honestly, probably less and feel that and see.
[00:29:20] Yeah, they're so like
[00:29:23] in my yoga training, I'm like, there's there's no daunting.
[00:29:27] There's no like grouted rootedness, right?
[00:29:30] And your body and that's also there.
[00:29:33] The throat and like the pelvic floor like root are very connected.
[00:29:37] And yeah, and there's just this like I'm giving my power over to everyone
[00:29:41] and everything. And when you're in pain and you're suffering,
[00:29:44] like, of course, you're you're just desperate, like you want to feel better.
[00:29:47] I get that.
[00:29:48] And I try to articulate that this is the best way possible.
[00:29:52] And I'm still figuring it out because when I post about this,
[00:29:54] not everyone gets it.
[00:29:55] So I'm like, OK, how am I talking about this?
[00:29:57] But like when you're constantly searching and in that desperate mode,
[00:30:03] yes, I get it help yourself.
[00:30:04] But also that's still running the fear cycle.
[00:30:06] That's still running the stress cycle.
[00:30:08] And then also you start believing people without even questioning it, right?
[00:30:12] You start believing everyone, telling you to do something without questioning.
[00:30:15] Does this actually feel like it?
[00:30:19] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:30:20] And maybe you don't know it first, you try it out,
[00:30:22] but you still have to really question instead of keeping going through it.
[00:30:26] I hear all the time like, well, I was told this was going to help.
[00:30:29] So I'm just continuing to do it.
[00:30:30] And I was like, no, you're into it.
[00:30:32] Like, has it helped at all in this whole year?
[00:30:35] Well, not really.
[00:30:36] I mean, but I don't really know.
[00:30:38] Yeah, that is what I think we all very much so need to rewire as women,
[00:30:43] because it is just so common.
[00:30:46] We've had to suppress a lot of our opinions and our needs and our rage and our desires.
[00:30:51] And well, I'm curious if you don't mind me asking you a question.
[00:30:54] This is like, you know, as someone who is like jokes around,
[00:30:57] I've not been diagnosed with this, but I'm like, oh, I have like borderline ADHD.
[00:31:01] When it comes to like ADHD, I'm very curious your thoughts on this.
[00:31:06] Because I love all of these studies that I see come out.
[00:31:09] And we know it's like a lot of women are diagnosed in their 30s and up and all
[00:31:14] these things and people like, oh, it makes sense.
[00:31:16] And at the same time, I can't help intuitively be like, is it really an ADHD problem?
[00:31:21] Or are most women, which is not being addressed, like I love these studies
[00:31:25] and these connections that they're making with this, this and this.
[00:31:28] But I'm like, are we overstimulated?
[00:31:30] Massively under fueled, like most women are and completely disconnected
[00:31:35] from ourselves. Is this really an ADHD problem that we can just medically
[00:31:39] slap on a term and be like, all right, see you later.
[00:31:42] You know, this helps you make sense.
[00:31:44] And then we rationalize, oh, cool.
[00:31:45] Like, oh, yeah.
[00:31:46] And we just move on with our day.
[00:31:48] I'm like, I still think we're like missing the big picture here.
[00:31:53] You know what I mean?
[00:31:54] Does that make sense?
[00:31:56] It does. And I'm serious.
[00:31:58] First and foremost, I agree.
[00:32:00] Yes, I will also not claim to be an ADHD expert.
[00:32:04] I know I'm a therapist, but I don't claim that.
[00:32:06] Yeah. And also, yes.
[00:32:09] How could that not factor in if you receive that diagnosis?
[00:32:15] If someone came to me and I don't get this a lot, but I do get this sometimes.
[00:32:18] And if they come to me and they're like, well, I learned I have ADHD.
[00:32:21] I want to know why is that a thing?
[00:32:24] Like, what are you experiencing?
[00:32:25] How long have you been experiencing it?
[00:32:27] And what was your childhood like?
[00:32:29] What was your environment like?
[00:32:30] What did you learn? What's going on now?
[00:32:32] Where are you out of alignment in your life now?
[00:32:36] Yeah.
[00:32:37] Most of us are overstimulated.
[00:32:39] Most of us are not grounded.
[00:32:40] Most of us are having some sort of identity crisis or lack of purpose or not
[00:32:46] sure what's going on and like.
[00:32:49] How does that not look like ADHD?
[00:32:51] And then I have to say this, too.
[00:32:52] We got to play like put genetics into play.
[00:32:55] We do. I don't think it's a bogus diagnosis.
[00:32:57] I don't think. Yeah.
[00:32:58] No, it's not like my life.
[00:33:01] Yeah, exactly.
[00:33:04] Not obvious, which is 100 percent neuroplastic.
[00:33:07] Yes, but ADHD.
[00:33:11] I mean, not everyone likes this either.
[00:33:13] But this is where I align with Gabor Monta.
[00:33:16] Yeah, he has a whole book on it.
[00:33:20] Exactly. Right.
[00:33:21] Like, I mean, trauma, overstimulation, dysregulation.
[00:33:26] Yeah, it's going to show up and look like ADHD.
[00:33:28] So, yeah, it's a both hand.
[00:33:30] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:33:31] I always live my life by like a yes and,
[00:33:34] you know, we're like, tell me more.
[00:33:36] I'm so curious.
[00:33:37] Oh, yeah, I agree.
[00:33:40] I feel like we could have like multiple episodes on so many different things.
[00:33:43] I was like, I know we're like approaching,
[00:33:45] we're approaching the near the end of it.
[00:33:49] So I was like, I know we could just keep going and going.
[00:33:53] There's so many things I want to talk about.
[00:33:54] So, and I think that we should and we will, but I do want to ask this
[00:33:58] because, you know, I've been prompting you,
[00:34:00] but like you have so much wisdom and knowledge.
[00:34:02] So if there's someone listening to this and they've been like doing the work,
[00:34:06] they've seen the people, they think they have mold and SIBO and gut issues and
[00:34:10] whatever, the whole thing.
[00:34:12] What do you, what would you tell someone like that that hasn't come to you or me?
[00:34:16] What would you say?
[00:34:18] Wear it like where to start?
[00:34:20] Or.
[00:34:22] What do you want them to know?
[00:34:24] Like they're open.
[00:34:25] They're like, hey, I'm curious.
[00:34:26] Like, I don't know where to go or what to do next.
[00:34:29] Well, number one, I would want them to let them know,
[00:34:31] like, I understand their frustration, our systems are not set up
[00:34:35] to financially, physically, all the things meet them where they're at.
[00:34:39] I get that. I'm so meeting them in that pain point.
[00:34:42] Number two is to like really reflect on their life.
[00:34:47] Like, even if they can't speak the jargon or they don't really fully
[00:34:50] understand it, maybe they haven't even dove into like a self journey.
[00:34:53] One thing I do want to say with the mold, just because you've moved out
[00:34:56] of a moldy house doesn't mean the mold's not still in your body.
[00:34:58] I think people really need to understand that.
[00:35:00] But number two is ask yourself like in your life, where am I out of my alignment?
[00:35:04] Like, where am I unhappy? Where am I miserable?
[00:35:07] Why? And for some people, that's scary as hell.
[00:35:10] Like, because that can mean ending a marriage, moving away from family,
[00:35:15] leaving a job and not knowing what step B is going to be.
[00:35:19] You know, there's ways that you can kind of prep yourself for those exits
[00:35:22] if those are the things, but really getting dialed in that.
[00:35:26] Coming back into the belief that your body has is there to serve you,
[00:35:33] like really there to serve you and where are you literally ignoring it?
[00:35:37] Are you distracting yourself?
[00:35:38] Have you gotten in these habits of like I watch TV every time after dinner?
[00:35:42] Like shut the TV off and go for a walk.
[00:35:44] You know what I mean? Like reconnect with nature, reconnect with go for a
[00:35:48] walk without your phone. When was the last time you did that?
[00:35:50] You know what I mean? Like you don't have to always spend money on a
[00:35:54] practitioner to do free things.
[00:35:58] I saw someone going off the other day on some girl that was like saying
[00:36:01] fitness or exercise is non-negotiable.
[00:36:03] Like, sure you to take care of yourself and somebody goes.
[00:36:07] I love them just meeting them where they're at.
[00:36:09] They're like, this is such a privilege statement to be able to afford a gym
[00:36:13] membership. And she's like, do you have a sidewalk?
[00:36:15] Do you have access to a park or a driveway?
[00:36:18] You know, do you have access to YouTube?
[00:36:21] You don't have to.
[00:36:23] Most people are like concerned about the supplements or the biohacking gadgets
[00:36:27] or hiring a practitioner.
[00:36:29] Ask yourself, have you nailed not just for one day or a week or maybe a month?
[00:36:35] Have you literally nailed the basics?
[00:36:37] Do you drink enough water?
[00:36:39] Try to make sure it's filtered, please.
[00:36:41] Not tap water.
[00:36:41] Like, do you eat whole nutrient dense foods most of the time?
[00:36:47] Do you sleep enough?
[00:36:48] You know, a lot of people ask me, like, what peptide should I take?
[00:36:51] I'm like, do you sleep seven, eight hours minimum of night?
[00:36:54] No, start there.
[00:36:56] It's way cheaper.
[00:36:57] You know what I mean? Like, start there.
[00:37:01] All these, like, do you get movement in?
[00:37:05] Yeah, and it doesn't, you don't have to be doing CrossFit.
[00:37:07] Do you at least walk enough?
[00:37:08] It's just like these very free basics.
[00:37:10] Are you seeing the daylight or is most of your time spent indoors
[00:37:13] and staring at screens?
[00:37:15] Are you getting outside?
[00:37:17] Could be on a lunch break.
[00:37:18] Take your meals outside.
[00:37:19] It's like all of these free, easy little ways that all of us find ways to make
[00:37:26] excuses for or find distractions and not implementing them.
[00:37:30] I would, for me, it's like, and again, are you actually regulated within yourself?
[00:37:35] Like, can you sit with yourself for five minutes?
[00:37:38] The people that tell me, like, meditation is a work for me.
[00:37:40] It gives me anxiety.
[00:37:40] I was like, that's your medicine.
[00:37:42] It's the same reason why they say in yoga, the pose that you hate,
[00:37:45] that you don't want to do is the pose that you should be doing.
[00:37:49] You know what I mean?
[00:37:50] Like, so and I love that when I saw Dr.
[00:37:53] Matei speak last week, he was saying that as well, you know,
[00:37:56] because a lot of people will be like, oh, I don't have money for this, this and this.
[00:37:59] And like, he's like, nature is free.
[00:38:02] Meditation is free.
[00:38:03] YouTube is free.
[00:38:04] He's like, you don't have to have, you don't have to spend money to start
[00:38:09] and just start with one thing.
[00:38:11] Don't try to do 10 things at once.
[00:38:13] Just start with one thing and try to become like really good at it,
[00:38:17] really consistent with it and start small.
[00:38:19] If you're meditating, start five minutes a day, maybe up it after a month to 10
[00:38:24] minutes a day, like don't overwhelm your system too much.
[00:38:27] If it's already overwhelmed, like slow it, slow it down, slow it down.
[00:38:33] Yes. Yes.
[00:38:35] Would you add anything to that?
[00:38:38] No, I'll just add, yes, start those things within that.
[00:38:42] Again, this can be free.
[00:38:44] There's a million things like YouTube, how to self-reflect.
[00:38:48] Right? When it comes to emotional journaling,
[00:38:50] I'm going to just flag journal speak by Nicole Sacks.
[00:38:53] You can probably get the book from your library or the podcast.
[00:38:58] Library, yeah.
[00:39:00] Like there's that I will 100% flag as the emotional processing that you could start.
[00:39:05] Well, yeah, I'll get stuff off of stuff.
[00:39:09] Like you don't have to be thousands of dollars.
[00:39:11] Of course. Yeah, exactly.
[00:39:13] And it's a it's a start.
[00:39:15] It's a foundation because you're going to be told to do those things no matter who you.
[00:39:20] Well, if you work with someone who has the mental, emotional, nervous system
[00:39:24] component, like integrated into their work, you will be told to do that anyway.
[00:39:29] Yes. So yeah. Yeah.
[00:39:31] Oh, thank you.
[00:39:32] I appreciate you, Grace. Thank you.
[00:39:35] Yeah, I appreciate you too.
[00:39:36] You have so much wisdom and like I just know this is going to help people.
[00:39:39] And yeah, thanks for your time today.
[00:39:43] I appreciate it. You're welcome.
[00:39:44] And we will link all of Ashley's links below.
[00:39:47] She has a great Instagram.
[00:39:48] You can find her and work with her through, I'm sure, her links website, all the things.
[00:39:52] Yeah, everything's in there.
[00:39:53] Shona. Yeah.
[00:39:55] Anything you want to highlight in that on that?
[00:39:57] Anything you're offering or?
[00:40:00] I'm starting a group program in May and then I will be doing like different
[00:40:05] tiers as this week this year I'm building out for I want to make things
[00:40:08] more accessible for people if they aren't ready to fully commit financially or just
[00:40:12] emotionally to a one on one, there's going to be like different tiers that I'm working
[00:40:16] building on the back end with my assistant this year just for people have access.
[00:40:20] And again, I'm always giving free resources all the time to on my Instagram.
[00:40:25] And if anyone has questions like DME, again, like I'm here to serve.
[00:40:29] That's that's what I'm here to do.
[00:40:30] Yeah. Yeah, girl.
[00:40:33] Amazing. Thank you so much.
[00:40:35] All right. We'll talk to you next time.
[00:40:37] Amazing.
[00:40:38] Keep dealing with grace.
[00:40:39] Thank you.
[00:40:41] If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to me if you could do
[00:40:45] these couple things, one, go to the Heal with Grace Show page wherever you listen
[00:40:50] and tap the plus sign or click on the follow button so you don't miss an episode.
[00:40:54] It helps both of us out.
[00:40:55] While you're there, if you could give a five star review so that this podcast
[00:41:00] can reach more people, it would mean so much to me so I can continue sharing
[00:41:04] episodes that help you as well as others.
[00:41:07] Thanks for listening and I hope this brings you hope on your journey.