What Emotional Regulation Looks Like, Part 2

[00:00:00] Hey there, and welcome to Heal with Grace.
[00:00:03] I'm your host, Grace Secker, and I'm a holistic, licensed therapist and nervous system coach
[00:00:08] who believes that the chronic and often unseen symptoms you're living with are a sign of
[00:00:12] something deeper going on.
[00:00:14] A sign that your nervous system needs attention.
[00:00:17] In each episode, I'll share the science behind the most common chronic health disorders
[00:00:21] plus holistic health tips using mental, physical, and spiritual practices.
[00:00:26] You'll hear what I've learned in my journey and the true stories from our trusted guests
[00:00:30] so you can feel less alone in your experience and give yourself grace no matter what you're
[00:00:34] going through.
[00:00:36] So without further ado, settle in and get cozy.
[00:00:38] It's time to Heal with Grace.
[00:00:40] Hello, and welcome back to the Heal with Grace podcast.
[00:00:45] I am here with Liana.
[00:00:48] She is a huge part of Lava Therapy and Wellness and Heal with Grace and she's
[00:00:52] one of our amazing chronic pain and chronic fatigue therapists.
[00:00:57] She works with anxiety.
[00:00:58] She works with somatic body work and is a really big part of our program and I'm happy
[00:01:03] to have her on today because we're going to be talking about how emotions affect the
[00:01:09] body and what it actually means or how to really feel your emotions.
[00:01:14] And so this is part two from episode nine.
[00:01:17] So if you haven't listened to that, I suggest you going back and listening to it.
[00:01:20] You don't have to before you listen to this one, but it could be helpful.
[00:01:24] So today, we're going to really share the details around why it's so important to feel
[00:01:29] and then also pal because we get so many questions on, okay, I get that it's important to feel,
[00:01:34] but how do we do that?
[00:01:36] So without further ado, hello, Liana, thanks for being here.
[00:01:41] Hello, thank you for having me.
[00:01:43] I'm so excited about this episode.
[00:01:45] I think it's such an important topic, so I'm excited to dig into this with you.
[00:01:50] It really is huge and it's a process in life, learning how to feel our emotions, right?
[00:01:55] It's a journey because it's not, you know, we can't give you exactly steps one, two and
[00:02:00] three to do it.
[00:02:01] You have to figure out how that works for you.
[00:02:05] Now we can guide you and help you give you tips, but again, it's a very personal process.
[00:02:11] Let's just start off with why is it important?
[00:02:15] Like how do emotions affect the body?
[00:02:17] And I know you have a few things to share around that, so what would you say to that?
[00:02:22] Being able to fill your emotions is important because feeling is a big part of the human
[00:02:26] experience.
[00:02:27] And so having emotions, having thoughts, like neither is better than the other, but they're
[00:02:32] both equally part.
[00:02:34] And so if we shut down one of these, it's important to learn how to connect with
[00:02:39] that.
[00:02:40] And as far as how it impacts the body, like what we feel we end up thinking and
[00:02:45] what we think like really impacts the way that we act and how we act with who we become.
[00:02:51] And so, and our body really responds to all of this.
[00:02:54] And so for example, you may notice that like when you get stressed or anxious, you may
[00:02:59] find that you get a little hot and sweaty, maybe your heart rate picks up.
[00:03:04] Maybe you get stomach ache or some kind of like other intestinal GI distress.
[00:03:10] Maybe you feel tightness in your chest or throat.
[00:03:13] Actually, right now, as you listen to this, like take a moment and check in with your body
[00:03:18] and just notice anything you're feeling.
[00:03:20] Does your body feel comfortable and relaxed?
[00:03:23] As you listen, they feel tight and jumpy.
[00:03:26] Maybe you need to be moving around and being productive while you listen to this.
[00:03:30] Feel what you notice coming up and then see if you can notice any emotion connected
[00:03:35] to these sensations in your body.
[00:03:37] And the more that you practice this, the more you can begin to notice how much the way you
[00:03:44] feel and think impacts the way you're feeling in your body.
[00:03:49] And science really backs us up now.
[00:03:51] Our emotions and thoughts and even our actions have the ability to change ourselves
[00:03:58] and even impacts the way that our DNA expresses itself.
[00:04:02] And so when we shut down different emotions or run on heightened emotion, it
[00:04:07] creates a lot of tension in our body.
[00:04:10] And doing this over time for the long term and years can actually create physical symptoms
[00:04:17] in our body and even can create disease.
[00:04:21] But then the opposite is true, which I think is really amazing and really freeing and exciting.
[00:04:28] Because if you learn to express your emotions and allow emotions to flow through you with
[00:04:33] ease and without judgment or attachment to them, you create a lot of freedom and
[00:04:38] harmony in your body that creates the foundation of a much healthier system for yourself,
[00:04:43] a healthier emotional, mental, spiritual, and physical state.
[00:04:48] And so, yeah, it's a really important piece and impacts the body in such a big way.
[00:04:55] I love that you pointed out both sides of it, right, like how not feeling affects us
[00:05:01] and also how sitting in a lot of stuckness around emotion can impact us and also how
[00:05:10] to move towards shifting into your positive emotions.
[00:05:15] And I'm going to say that with a caveat because we want to make sure that it's not
[00:05:20] just about naming positive and negative.
[00:05:22] We only feel positive, right, because we need to feel the whole spectrum of emotion.
[00:05:27] And it's also researched and shown that the more we can put ourselves and the sensations
[00:05:33] of positive emotions like joy, gratitude, then our bodies and our minds will orient
[00:05:40] towards those even more, the more that we put them in there, right?
[00:05:43] And the same as negative, right?
[00:05:45] So if we're feeling really sad and hopeless and depressed and more often
[00:05:51] than not feeling so stuck in it and not knowing how to get out,
[00:05:55] we also can perpetuate that.
[00:05:57] So it's really important to note the both.
[00:06:00] And again, the whole point of understanding how to feel emotions is learning
[00:06:05] that they're all important to feel, that we can't stop feeling, quote,
[00:06:10] unquote, negative emotions.
[00:06:12] Like there is not a inherent value to be placed on them.
[00:06:17] Feeling joy, feeling sadness are both incredibly important.
[00:06:20] We need to feel these.
[00:06:23] So I know it might sound confusing.
[00:06:25] We're saying feel more positive, not negative, but we need to feel them all.
[00:06:29] But it's really not an either or.
[00:06:30] It's learning how to feel them all so that our bodies don't have to be
[00:06:33] scared of them and shut down.
[00:06:37] Yeah.
[00:06:37] And I think even removing labels from emotions like defining them as good or
[00:06:42] bad can be like really powerful because sadness and grief and hurt and anger,
[00:06:48] they feel, you know, they're more difficult.
[00:06:51] Feeling joy is way more fun, but they're like authentic experiences of being
[00:06:56] human and very valid.
[00:06:59] You know, I think it's so important to learn that every emotion has its place
[00:07:05] and that they're all okay.
[00:07:07] They're very healthy to feel and express and very normal, very human.
[00:07:11] And I think removing labels from it can actually, I know for me personally
[00:07:16] was helpful like, hey, it's okay if I feel sad.
[00:07:19] It's okay if I get mad about something or upset or hurt, but absolutely.
[00:07:24] The more that we do anything, our brains are rewireable.
[00:07:28] And so the more that we feel an emotion and hang out there and, you know,
[00:07:33] think different thoughts, that line up more with the person that we want
[00:07:36] to be in the way we want to experience our life, our brain will automatically
[00:07:40] like go down that pathway more easily.
[00:07:42] And so, yeah, you, you know, if you want to experience more joy,
[00:07:47] the more you can, you know, feel it and lean into it, the more you'll more
[00:07:51] naturally go to that place.
[00:07:53] But I also think it's really important to authentically feel all the emotions
[00:07:58] that come up and be okay with that.
[00:08:00] Because I've personally found that in doing that, good joy becomes more real.
[00:08:05] It's not, it's a true real place.
[00:08:08] And you can feel more joy when you can authentically move through these
[00:08:13] other emotions.
[00:08:15] Yes, exactly.
[00:08:17] I actually had a similar, I had an experience of being reminded of that
[00:08:22] recently when I think most of you know that I fought through a divorce last year
[00:08:27] and I've been really working on healing and recognizing the triggered parts
[00:08:31] of me that come up, right?
[00:08:33] And the inner child that I need to work with and really digging and
[00:08:36] working and going deep into it and feeling that fear and feeling that
[00:08:40] pain, I kind of got to a place where I'm just exhausted.
[00:08:44] My body was reacting, right?
[00:08:46] I just kept trying to feel all those things.
[00:08:48] I thought that feeling the fear, feeling the pain was important and it is.
[00:08:52] It truly is.
[00:08:53] I need to feel that.
[00:08:55] I wasn't allowing myself to step into feelings of hope and joy and moving forward
[00:09:03] and gratitude for the fact that I made this really hard decision that now
[00:09:06] is going to take me on this new place in life that is aligned with
[00:09:10] myself and is supposed to be happening.
[00:09:13] So once I recognized that and started stepping into that as well,
[00:09:16] I kind of had this like weight lift off of me and say, oh, okay.
[00:09:20] Definitely.
[00:09:21] Yeah.
[00:09:21] I can feel, I can feel all of it.
[00:09:23] It's all important to feel.
[00:09:24] And so we're kind of also hinting around the idea of not feeling something,
[00:09:30] right?
[00:09:30] So like pushing something down, which is called repressing emotion.
[00:09:36] And so when we repress emotion, really what we're doing is dismissing ourselves
[00:09:43] because we can't not feel emotion.
[00:09:45] Emotion is human, isn't a human experience.
[00:09:48] And so when we tell ourselves not to feel something, and a lot of times this is
[00:09:52] subconscious, right?
[00:09:53] So you're probably not sitting there saying, I can't feel that or maybe you are.
[00:09:57] We definitely can sometimes.
[00:09:59] But a lot of times repressing emotion or pushing it down and not telling or
[00:10:04] telling ourselves not to feel it can be unconscious.
[00:10:08] Let's talk about that for a minute, especially repressed emotion with physical illness,
[00:10:12] with chronic illness, is a huge, it's a huge learning curve for people understanding
[00:10:17] how much that actually affects our chronic health.
[00:10:20] So I know you have a few things to say about that.
[00:10:22] So what would you say about repressed emotion?
[00:10:25] Yeah.
[00:10:26] I mean, like you said, there's a huge connection between repressed emotions and
[00:10:30] things that come up for us in chronic illness and different symptoms.
[00:10:34] And you're right.
[00:10:36] It's not a conscious decision to repress emotions.
[00:10:39] I think that's important to understand.
[00:10:41] A lot of times, I think this comes from the way that we grew up and the comfort level that
[00:10:46] our parents or caregiver or person that we're spending the most time with was able to express
[00:10:51] emotions.
[00:10:52] And so a lot of times we don't learn healthy ways of dealing with emotions or we
[00:10:59] maybe not, maybe not even explicitly, but maybe even implicitly, we learned that it
[00:11:03] wasn't okay to feel emotions at all.
[00:11:05] This isn't a decision that somebody is making and a description that I often see for emotions
[00:11:14] that I really like is referring to emotions with energy and emotion.
[00:11:18] And I love that because it's a reminder that emotions need to move.
[00:11:22] And when we learn to repress emotion, they don't move.
[00:11:27] They get stuck.
[00:11:29] Recently, actually on a recent podcast that we did, we talked about this and like an
[00:11:33] experience that I've had, historically anger has been a very uncomfortable emotion for me.
[00:11:41] And a lot of times I don't even know that I'm angry about something until I've learned to
[00:11:47] recognize like, oh, I just feel like really checked out right now.
[00:11:50] I feel really exhausted.
[00:11:52] And then I think about what happened.
[00:11:53] And I'm like, yeah, that actually kind of makes me mad.
[00:11:56] But along the way, it really makes me mad.
[00:11:59] It's still hard to even acknowledge that things can come up like that.
[00:12:04] But along the way, I recognized that when I don't acknowledge my anger and process it,
[00:12:10] and if it's with somebody else like have the conversation that needs to come up,
[00:12:14] like I end up getting like a terrible migraine that will just kind of knock me out.
[00:12:18] And this is because that anger has to move.
[00:12:23] And if it doesn't, if we don't take the time to sit with it and process it and be a little
[00:12:29] uncomfortable, be in this unfamiliar ground that we maybe didn't learn how to deal with,
[00:12:35] these emotions get stuck and they can cause all kinds of symptoms and pain.
[00:12:40] And we mentioned over a long period of time can even create disease in your body.
[00:12:45] And I think because it's unconscious, I think it's important to know how to even know
[00:12:49] if I'm repressing emotions.
[00:12:51] And good clues are regularly feeling numb or feeling numb after a conversation
[00:12:58] or blank or checked out.
[00:13:00] If you find that you feel chronically nervous or stressed all the time,
[00:13:05] if you're very forgetful, if you're uncomfortable around other people's
[00:13:10] expressions of emotion, other signs are you might sleep a lot.
[00:13:15] You might feel like very on edge and find that you're like very emotionally reacted,
[00:13:20] very easily angered, feeling like you need to just like constantly
[00:13:24] busy on the go and maybe you get plenty of rest, but you're still constantly finding
[00:13:29] that you have like very low energy and like very exhausted.
[00:13:34] These are all signs that you have emotions in your body that aren't being expressed,
[00:13:41] aren't being worked through and your body is communicating to you in these different ways.
[00:13:45] There's something here, there's something going on for you to look at.
[00:13:49] So yeah, those are really awesome examples.
[00:13:52] It's an interesting concept that we first hear about repressed emotions.
[00:13:58] Usually it's like, okay, wow, I had no idea how much that can affect us,
[00:14:01] but also I don't know if that's something that I'm doing, right?
[00:14:05] And speaking to what you said is that when we push down emotions,
[00:14:10] because we didn't know that we're allowed to feel them,
[00:14:14] really what's happening when it leads to chronic symptoms or disease
[00:14:19] is that our body is just trying to protect us from them.
[00:14:22] So our body is really saying, okay, I'm going to protect you from those difficult emotions
[00:14:27] that you're not allowed to feel and instead, well, something, you know, this energy,
[00:14:31] energy, emotions or energy, right, it has to go somewhere.
[00:14:34] And so instead I'm going to send this energy to certain areas of your body,
[00:14:38] your organs or whatever it is to feel or to cause issues, to cause pain.
[00:14:44] This is goal pain so that you don't have to feel those emotions.
[00:14:48] And so the whole point of learning how to feel your emotions, especially those repressed ones,
[00:14:54] is so that we can say, you know what, it's okay, I can feel this.
[00:14:58] I am safe in feeling these emotions, like, hey brain, hey body, I don't,
[00:15:03] we don't need those chronic symptoms anymore.
[00:15:05] I don't need that pain to protect me because, look, I can feel these safely.
[00:15:10] It may not necessarily be easy to feel difficult emotions, painful emotions,
[00:15:16] but it's okay to, it's safe.
[00:15:19] One analogy that I really love is from Tara Brock and she's a Buddhist psychologist
[00:15:25] and she called it the second arrow effect.
[00:15:27] So the first arrow that hits us is an emotion that comes up, right?
[00:15:31] We can't control that.
[00:15:33] That first arrow is, so yeah, that could be far to feel, right?
[00:15:37] That is, that can be painful.
[00:15:39] But what creates the suffering from an emotion is the second arrow.
[00:15:44] And that suffering is created because that second arrow is usually criticism
[00:15:48] or repression or judgment around the fact that we're feeling something around that first arrow.
[00:15:54] So if we take that second arrow out, which again are things like
[00:15:58] criticizing ourselves for feeling a certain way, judging ourselves, telling us,
[00:16:02] telling ourselves it's not okay, if we take those away and actually just feel and allow
[00:16:08] that energy to move, then our bodies still have to protect us.
[00:16:12] I love that analogy and everyone usually likes it too and I describe it.
[00:16:16] So that's what it made me think of.
[00:16:18] Yeah, I always love that analogy too.
[00:16:21] And I love what you said about like these symptoms that come up
[00:16:25] are our body's way of trying to protect us because when we don't learn how to express
[00:16:29] emotions, like basically what we're learning on some level is that it's not safe
[00:16:34] to express those emotions.
[00:16:36] And so emotions become to bring up feelings and danger in our body.
[00:16:44] And that's why emotions can feel really overwhelming and create these racing
[00:16:50] thoughts or high heart rate or different things that you'll very scary to look at.
[00:16:56] And that's where the body does try to come in and protect it.
[00:16:59] And I always say when people come to first work with us with chronic symptoms,
[00:17:05] I often say, this is such a gift that your body is speaking to you in this way because
[00:17:10] even though it doesn't feel like that, you're ready to look at these things.
[00:17:15] And it's your body's way of communicating to you in the way that you're able to safely
[00:17:21] receive the message.
[00:17:22] And so now we can begin digging in and finding what are these places that
[00:17:27] we're trying to talk to you.
[00:17:28] Where is your body trying to heal?
[00:17:31] Because that's ultimately what it's wanting.
[00:17:34] Our bodies are amazing and they're constantly working to protect us in all of these
[00:17:41] different ways.
[00:17:42] And so I really, I love that you said that.
[00:17:44] Yeah.
[00:17:45] Yes.
[00:17:46] It's super important to know that, and it might take some time to get there,
[00:17:50] but to understand that those symptoms are just messengers and we can see them as gifts
[00:17:56] our bodies talking to us, which actually means you have a pretty strong connection to your body,
[00:18:02] which is a, I mean, that could be a whole other episode because we can talk about the idea of
[00:18:07] connecting to your body.
[00:18:08] Because when you deal with a lot of repressed emotion, it feels like you're disconnected.
[00:18:12] And a lot of times we are.
[00:18:14] Our brains and our bodies are talking to us and they want us to know,
[00:18:17] hey, something's wrong, right?
[00:18:20] Or, hey, let's listen here, look at this.
[00:18:22] So learning how to feel is saying, yeah, hey, let's just, it's okay to feel this.
[00:18:28] I listen, I hear you, you know.
[00:18:31] Yeah.
[00:18:32] Yeah, definitely.
[00:18:34] Okay.
[00:18:34] So I mentioned in the previous episode the difference between voiders and feelers.
[00:18:40] And I, by the way, I just kind of termed these, you know, they're not scientifically
[00:18:46] proven names, but I think it fits pretty well.
[00:18:49] And so voiders are people that usually will avoid emotion.
[00:18:54] And you might be someone who's like, yeah, I just, I'm not that person that's going to feel
[00:18:58] or like cry in a movie or something like that, right?
[00:19:01] And feelers or maybe you identify as an over-feeler because,
[00:19:05] one, you've probably been told that you might feel too much and that's not okay.
[00:19:09] Or you truly, and you truly have the experience of feeling so out of control with
[00:19:14] your emotions and not know what to do with it.
[00:19:17] And I will say this is that they are not puppets.
[00:19:20] Like you're not in either war.
[00:19:21] You might identify that with it with one or the other, but it's a spectrum for sure.
[00:19:26] And there's a wave of we can ebb and flow between both.
[00:19:29] But it's helpful to give the context of both so that we can kind of talk about that.
[00:19:33] So let's talk about the difference between avoiders and feelers.
[00:19:37] And then also, how do we start to regulate our emotions based on,
[00:19:43] you know, kind of where we are on that spectrum?
[00:19:46] So I'm going to give it over to you for a minute because I know we vary a little bit
[00:19:51] on how we identify.
[00:19:52] And so I think it can be helpful to give some examples.
[00:19:55] So where do you feel like you fall on that spectrum?
[00:19:59] Yeah, well, I very strongly identify as a feeler feeling for the most part,
[00:20:04] like other than anger are very, very easy and accessible to me.
[00:20:08] And I think when it comes to having a dysregulated nervous system and being
[00:20:15] a feeler, like being in a chronic state of hyperarousal can lead to emotional eruptions
[00:20:22] and having a lot of difficulty just like regulating your emotions.
[00:20:26] And I think that one of the parts of healing this is learning to recognize
[00:20:33] like what's coming up in your body, what you're feeling in the moment,
[00:20:37] kind of what we talked about in the beginning.
[00:20:39] And when you can recognize that and stay present with it,
[00:20:44] then you're able to begin to learn to start regulating your emotions and nervous system
[00:20:48] and recognize that just because you feel something very, very strongly and it feels
[00:20:55] so overwhelming and empowering, it doesn't make it true.
[00:20:59] That was like a huge, huge, huge thing for me to learn on my journey.
[00:21:03] And it doesn't mean that your emotions aren't valid, but it doesn't.
[00:21:07] But I've also found it doesn't mean that the emotions are based on your current reality.
[00:21:12] What I've found is that a lot of times when you're having like a really big emotional reaction,
[00:21:18] especially over things that you can rationally later be likely,
[00:21:21] but that wasn't a big deal like why I was so upset.
[00:21:24] It's often based on past experiences that are being triggered by something today.
[00:21:29] And that's why it's so important to be able to learn to regulate in the moment
[00:21:35] so that you can actually connect with your rational brain and recognize
[00:21:40] that when you're feeling these big emotions and they feel so all consuming,
[00:21:44] that is not the time to have a conversation or express the emotions of someone else.
[00:21:49] Like that's the time to be able to recognize, okay, I need to take a pause and take some time
[00:21:55] for myself to process what came up and let those emotions really move through.
[00:22:01] And some ways that can be helpful is journaling, maybe doing some kind of art project,
[00:22:08] maybe taking a walk, maybe listening to some music.
[00:22:11] There's all kinds of ways to process.
[00:22:13] And then if it's related to someone else,
[00:22:16] learning to wait to have that conversation so that you can rationally figure out
[00:22:21] and figure what actually needs to be addressed.
[00:22:24] And when you recognize that there's old wounds that have been pulled up,
[00:22:31] it's really, really important to process that or work through it either on your own
[00:22:36] or with a mental health professional because those things are going to be easily triggered
[00:22:41] and continue to come up in your relationships today.
[00:22:45] And then today, address the things that are relevant.
[00:22:50] And then of course, if this is a long-term, like romantic partner,
[00:22:54] for example, it would be a healthy practice to share a lot of emotional triggers
[00:22:59] so that they can support you as you work through them
[00:23:02] and be part of your healing journey versus being a part of what's continually setting you off
[00:23:09] and making it harder to heal.
[00:23:11] But by truly taking this time to pause and step away from these situations
[00:23:16] and honestly sort through your emotions,
[00:23:18] that's where you'll really be able to feel calm
[00:23:21] and authentically understand how you're really feeling about something
[00:23:25] so that you can respond to situations that come up in ways that line up with your values.
[00:23:29] Because I think it's really important to be able to learn how to intentionally respond to life
[00:23:34] and not be reactionary when you haven't learned how to process your emotions
[00:23:40] and how to sit with them.
[00:23:43] It puts you in a more reactive state.
[00:23:45] And that's why a lot of times people end up saying things
[00:23:48] and doing things that they regret and later being like,
[00:23:50] but I don't actually feel that way.
[00:23:52] Like why am I treating people this way?
[00:23:55] And it's because there's all this stuff that hasn't been worked through.
[00:24:00] Really like the distinction between true versus valid
[00:24:03] just because you're feeling something.
[00:24:06] It doesn't always mean it's true.
[00:24:08] Your feelings are totally valid.
[00:24:10] They're completely real.
[00:24:12] It's just that usually we make meaning about the emotions
[00:24:16] and that meaning may not necessarily be true.
[00:24:20] Absolutely.
[00:24:21] I also just kind of want to give an example and like share because
[00:24:25] this has been a big, big, big part of my journey.
[00:24:28] I didn't learn how to deal with my emotions in a healthy way.
[00:24:31] And for me, that resulted in those feelings
[00:24:35] getting directed inward at myself.
[00:24:37] And that can be a really common response
[00:24:41] when you don't learn how to deal with your feelings.
[00:24:43] And so as a child and really more of the teenager
[00:24:46] in like early adult years, I found myself just getting
[00:24:50] very, very easily emotionally flooded and overwhelmed.
[00:24:55] And my capacity and tolerance for conflict and disagreements
[00:24:58] was incredibly low.
[00:25:00] I just really never learned how to respond to when emotions
[00:25:05] felt overwhelming.
[00:25:06] And so when I would feel something,
[00:25:08] the emotions would just build and build and build.
[00:25:11] And I would just like happen so fast.
[00:25:14] We'd go from just being so emotionally flooded
[00:25:17] to completely shut down.
[00:25:19] And my response to that is I would just start crying
[00:25:21] at times that a lot of times didn't really make sense
[00:25:24] and would even confuse me.
[00:25:26] And especially if I got older, like it became really embarrassing.
[00:25:30] And it's like my rational brain would get completely hijacked.
[00:25:33] I mean, it was.
[00:25:34] And I would just shut down and cry.
[00:25:36] And it's for whatever reason was the way that my brain
[00:25:39] and body responded to conversations and situations
[00:25:42] that felt overwhelming.
[00:25:44] I was just completely incapable of staying present.
[00:25:48] And we'd be at such a loss for words
[00:25:51] and even lose the ability to comprehend
[00:25:55] like what somebody else was saying.
[00:25:57] I remember when I first started therapy,
[00:25:59] I would just cry and cry and cry for most of the session,
[00:26:03] learning to be vulnerable and show up in that way
[00:26:07] in a safe space was so unfamiliar for me.
[00:26:12] And so it was very uncomfortable and brought up
[00:26:15] this whole cycle for me, which is great
[00:26:17] because I work with a somatic therapist.
[00:26:19] And so she really helped me to learn to stay in my body
[00:26:23] and stay present and feel what I was hearing
[00:26:25] and be in the present moment with her.
[00:26:28] And so it was very uncomfortable for me for many years.
[00:26:33] But I always knew it was such a good uncomfortable
[00:26:36] because the things that I wanted and the way
[00:26:38] that I wanted to be able to show up in the world
[00:26:40] and in my relationships was just so much stronger
[00:26:43] than the familiarity of staying as is,
[00:26:46] which not in all situations, but in very close relationships
[00:26:52] even became reactionary, really learning to stay present
[00:26:56] and learn how to regulate my nervous system and emotions.
[00:26:59] And like we talked about earlier, develop a tolerance
[00:27:03] for what I was feeling and like a true acceptance
[00:27:05] and like being okay and even having love
[00:27:08] and appreciation for my emotions has been such a process.
[00:27:12] And like huge, huge, huge for being able to be in relationships
[00:27:17] and also just genuinely care for myself
[00:27:20] and get to know myself and take care of myself.
[00:27:24] I just feel much, much more comfortable and confident
[00:27:28] in really my sensitivity, which I had always felt
[00:27:32] like was too much.
[00:27:34] And now I feel like it's one of the greatest
[00:27:36] gifts that I bring to the world.
[00:27:38] And I am grateful now to be able to show up in a way
[00:27:41] that's aligned with who I am
[00:27:43] and is just a much more authentic expression of myself
[00:27:46] and just really being able to experience the fullness
[00:27:50] and richness and all the things that come up with being human.
[00:27:53] And for me, that was really learning to feel my emotions
[00:27:57] and stay with them and also learn how to bring
[00:28:01] in my rational brain because that thinking side,
[00:28:05] like if we think about like the Myers-Briggs
[00:28:08] of like thinker feeler, I am an extreme feeler
[00:28:11] if you say that, and learning how to stay with my emotions
[00:28:14] and pause and recognize like we said earlier,
[00:28:18] their feelings, it doesn't mean their facts
[00:28:21] would allow me then to make decisions like
[00:28:23] from my more rational brain so that I could act and think
[00:28:27] and ultimately feel in a way that aligns with like who I am
[00:28:31] and my values and the way that I want to be in this world.
[00:28:35] The long explanation, but it's been such a big part
[00:28:40] of my journey and has just been so, so, so powerful.
[00:28:43] I think that's just so huge for people.
[00:28:48] It really is and it's so helpful to hear, you know,
[00:28:52] how you've understood how your emotions affect you
[00:28:56] and also what it sounds like to me is that you were
[00:28:59] really lifting off the criticism of the fact
[00:29:02] that you had emotions and that you were a big feeler
[00:29:04] and that you feel, right, that you have emotions
[00:29:08] and bringing back in compassion and grace for yourself
[00:29:11] and kindness around that and now even gratitude, right,
[00:29:15] for the the idea that you are a healer and you are sensitive
[00:29:20] and that I think is such a beautiful process
[00:29:23] and really needed in this journey because it's you, right?
[00:29:28] I mean, yeah, wishing you were something or someone else
[00:29:31] isn't going to get you anywhere.
[00:29:32] That's repressing more, right?
[00:29:34] And so owning and recognizing and understanding
[00:29:39] how innately maybe that you feel is really important
[00:29:43] and then learning how to work with it, right?
[00:29:46] Like how to manage like you just mentioned.
[00:29:48] So thank you.
[00:29:49] That's really important.
[00:29:50] As you mentioned, you're more on that feeling scale
[00:29:52] and feeling versus thinking.
[00:29:55] I've been reflecting as you're talking and with myself
[00:29:59] I can definitely, well, I'll say this, for a long time
[00:30:02] I always thought I was more of an avoider
[00:30:05] and I do have a pretty strong analytical line.
[00:30:08] Like I am a thinker.
[00:30:09] Anytime I go to someone, especially any kind of energy healer
[00:30:12] they're always like, whoa, your brain, your mind.
[00:30:15] It's a lot going up on up there and I think I know.
[00:30:18] But I also think that's what's drawn me so much
[00:30:21] to somatic practices and body work
[00:30:23] because I want to be more at my body
[00:30:27] and I have worked really hard at that
[00:30:29] and I recognize how much that's helped me.
[00:30:31] And so for me, not only did I just learn from childhood
[00:30:35] that feeling emotions wasn't really important or helpful
[00:30:40] but that I really did tend to push away a lot
[00:30:44] or repress and push down.
[00:30:46] I dealt with depression for many years
[00:30:48] and depression is really a symptom of repressing a lot
[00:30:53] in your life or pushing down.
[00:30:55] So it makes a lot of sense.
[00:30:57] I mean, I never allowed myself to feel
[00:31:00] and at the same time, I did have big feelings.
[00:31:04] I do have big feelings.
[00:31:06] And so what I've come to recognize now
[00:31:09] is how much I can, I call it a wave.
[00:31:11] I can kind of go through waves.
[00:31:13] So my tendency is to push down
[00:31:15] and it doesn't look like this as much anymore
[00:31:18] but it used to look like push down for a while.
[00:31:20] Maybe I'd be depressed for a little bit
[00:31:22] and then at least for my body, it has to come out somewhere
[00:31:26] and comes out in chronic health, chronic symptoms.
[00:31:29] But then emotionally, it really would truly come out.
[00:31:32] I mean, I would feel so deeply and get so upset
[00:31:36] and sad and frustrated and hopelessness
[00:31:39] has always been a big part of how I feel.
[00:31:42] And so now I recognize that that's kind of more of
[00:31:46] my wave is that I'll push down
[00:31:48] and then I'll see it'll come out
[00:31:50] whether that's in a certain situation
[00:31:52] I'm dealing with in life or
[00:31:54] then we'll come out for a few days
[00:31:55] and I don't really know why
[00:31:56] but I'm just in this kind of whole of emotion.
[00:32:00] And so the way that I've learned to work with that
[00:32:03] is to kind of non-attach strength as waves from those places
[00:32:08] so I can feel really down and depressed
[00:32:10] but I don't give so much meaning to it
[00:32:12] kind of like you're noting with emotion.
[00:32:15] It doesn't really matter if you're not feeling or you're feeling
[00:32:17] you just don't give so much meaning to that state
[00:32:20] that place that you're in and allows flow to go through
[00:32:24] and now my waves aren't so drastic
[00:32:26] because I'm allowed to just kind of let
[00:32:29] what is to be whether that's really feeling
[00:32:33] or not feeling much at all
[00:32:34] just kind of recognizing like
[00:32:36] okay this is my process and that's part of it
[00:32:39] but then also I've recognized how to learn how to
[00:32:42] you know give myself racing a fashion vert feeling
[00:32:45] and feel those things that I repress
[00:32:47] because even when I'm in that more depressed state
[00:32:51] I'm not really feeling it's like a mask right
[00:32:54] it's just kind of this overall veil that's over you
[00:32:58] so you're not really feeling you're just in this kind of like numb place
[00:33:03] so I've learned that yeah okay feeling my feelings is important
[00:33:07] and so you may be listening to this thinking like well yeah
[00:33:10] but I don't get to a place where I actually feel
[00:33:13] I just am pretty numb
[00:33:14] and that might be your experience too
[00:33:16] again this is a spectrum and there's you know
[00:33:18] not one exact way that you're going to be
[00:33:21] so as an avoider your learning experience
[00:33:26] is to help you understand how to feel
[00:33:30] and it's a journey for sure
[00:33:33] and we're going to talk about that in a minute of techniques and tools
[00:33:36] and then we're going to help you do that
[00:33:38] but I want to come back to just this idea
[00:33:42] really pushing down and not feeling is that
[00:33:45] again it's a protection mechanism we don't you know
[00:33:48] we don't really know how if we were never taught
[00:33:51] and most of our society at least in western society
[00:33:54] are not taught how to feel
[00:33:56] and usually it's deemed it's termed bad
[00:33:59] I think it's not it's bad if you're emotional
[00:34:02] right even the word emotional have a negative connotation to it
[00:34:06] which just dismisses it in and of itself
[00:34:09] that's not helpful right so if we can take the word emotional
[00:34:12] and ship that meaning actually can bring a lot of grace
[00:34:16] and compassion and compassion and flexibility to ourselves
[00:34:19] it's probably because sometimes well as I go on this journey
[00:34:25] when I feel emotions I get really excited
[00:34:28] or when I could be really emotional like oh good I'm feeling
[00:34:31] you know it's almost like a sense of pride like
[00:34:33] I don't know about you but being in school and learning
[00:34:37] how to be in session I remember sitting in practicum
[00:34:40] when we're in school students and practicing on each other
[00:34:43] and you get someone to cry it was like a badge of honor
[00:34:47] like oh I got them to cry
[00:34:49] or I got them to feel emotion
[00:34:50] not that that's the whole goal of therapy obviously
[00:34:53] but it is important we need to feel
[00:34:56] there's a reason why there's memes all the time around therapy
[00:35:00] and cry because crying is true expressions dealing emotion
[00:35:05] not bad it's not a negative thing it's just true expression
[00:35:08] and we can express in so many different ways
[00:35:11] yeah I love that I love that you get excited with emotions
[00:35:14] because I'm like this is so great because we're coming from
[00:35:18] different ish places but because I get excited
[00:35:21] and have a little internal cheering for myself
[00:35:24] when I not as much anymore but especially in the beginning
[00:35:27] when I'm able to step away from my emotions
[00:35:29] and be rational or be really upset about something
[00:35:32] and no longer have to leave the conversation
[00:35:34] that's like what I get most excited about now
[00:35:36] and stay rational even though I'm having all this stuff on that
[00:35:40] so I totally get that and I love that I think that
[00:35:43] being able to be your own cheerleader along your journey
[00:35:48] and recognize all of the shifts that may seem small
[00:35:53] that are actually monumental and huge
[00:35:55] because it's these little tiny changes that truly lead to
[00:36:01] how you transform your life how you transform the way you show up
[00:36:04] and experience life yeah so I really I really really like that
[00:36:08] and I also love that you talked about the importance of not attaching
[00:36:13] to creating meaning around the different experiences
[00:36:18] I think even for somebody who's like
[00:36:21] hey it's really hard for me to feel emotion
[00:36:23] like I don't really know I just learn them all the time
[00:36:25] like I think there can even be a lot of judgment associated with that
[00:36:29] like well what's wrong with me
[00:36:31] and there's absolutely nothing wrong with you
[00:36:33] there's nothing wrong with any of us
[00:36:34] it's just the way that for whatever like
[00:36:38] however you're upbringing was
[00:36:40] so ever the way that you interpreted the messages that you received
[00:36:46] and those can come in all kinds of ways
[00:36:48] like not just conversations but the way that
[00:36:52] someone responds to you when you're hurting or sad
[00:36:55] all of these things vape the way that you're able to
[00:37:00] tolerate emotions and respond to them
[00:37:02] and the way that your brain and body responds to it
[00:37:05] and I think the more that you can let go of judgment
[00:37:12] or making meaning of it
[00:37:14] the more easily it's going easy and fluid it will be for you to
[00:37:21] step and start moving into the direction of your healing direction
[00:37:26] you know whether that's learning to turn feelings off
[00:37:29] whether that's learning to turn them on
[00:37:31] you know I think the more we can get away from judgment and expectation
[00:37:37] the more our body learns that it's safe to move in the direction that you're wanting
[00:37:44] yeah yeah we're really talking about acceptance right acceptance of your process
[00:37:50] yourselves your journey and acceptance I always say this acceptance doesn't always
[00:37:56] mean you have to like it or love it
[00:37:58] it's just acknowledging that it's there and it's real and that's what's happening
[00:38:03] it's true right now right so I think that's a really important part of this is
[00:38:09] no judgment on where you are whether you feel or don't feel or where you are in your journey
[00:38:14] with your emotional regulation we all are made differently for a reason and we all have very
[00:38:19] specific ways of processing and that's completely okay I'll say this one little thing and then
[00:38:25] let's talk about how I remember sitting in a movie one time like a movie theater with friends and
[00:38:31] I think I was like probably three or four and I don't even remember what we were seeing but
[00:38:36] they were all crying at the same time the one scene you know like everyone's crying around me
[00:38:40] and I'm sitting there like okay this is sad I'm not just numb I understand like this is an
[00:38:45] important sad scene but I couldn't cry and I almost like tried to make myself or try to
[00:38:52] try to have that emotion come out in a way that someone could see because I didn't want to be perceived
[00:38:58] as I don't know weird or something and I judged myself for that I would judge myself for not
[00:39:03] crying at a speech someone gave that other people are crying at or something along those lines right
[00:39:09] and so this goes along the line of just accepting where we are and what's happening
[00:39:14] and I will say by the way that this past year something has had a broken open in me
[00:39:20] since my divorce I cry it so much right now and I think that's just where I am in my journey
[00:39:25] but I recognize like there's just emotion there all the time I'm crying it so much
[00:39:31] I was talking to my cousin the other day crying on the phone and she was like are you
[00:39:35] crying I was like yeah I just do it all the time now so you know it's just everyone's
[00:39:42] personal process it's different so allowing that to be there wherever you are today is
[00:39:48] going to be different than tomorrow which is going to be different from next year
[00:39:52] and let go of the meaning let go of the attachments that we have to what that looks like
[00:39:58] right or what should look like so yeah thanks for bringing that up okay so let's talk about
[00:40:06] what do we do how do we actually feel and how do we actually regulate right I did notice you
[00:40:12] these back in episode nine but let's talk more depth around how do we feel emotions because we get
[00:40:19] that question a lot especially when we're dealing with chronic health products of dumps
[00:40:23] from a lot of our clients we get that because I think going through chronic health
[00:40:28] we can shut that off it's easier too right and we talked about oppressed emotions and that's
[00:40:32] probably why okay so one way to start feeling which is from a place well it's not necessary
[00:40:40] from a place of thought or thinking but it's a really great visual so I use this definitely
[00:40:46] a lot to understand so the feelings wheel is something you can literally just google feelings
[00:40:50] wheel and it'll pop right up and it has all different kinds of emotions and kind of like
[00:40:55] breaks out in categories of emotions and so sometimes especially more working with people
[00:41:00] or when you're just trying to figure out how you feel on your own you can pull this up
[00:41:05] and look at the word of emotions and check in with yourself okay do I feel this no do I feel this no
[00:41:12] this maybe right I used to do that all the time am I angry or am I sad or am I fearful
[00:41:20] it can be a really important tool to help you start to identify because the first
[00:41:25] part of this is just awareness like what is it what is there and so that's a way
[00:41:31] that you can tune in to start to understand and discover how we feel you have anything to add
[00:41:38] around the feelings wheel yeah I love the feelings wheel and it's funny I mean it makes sense because
[00:41:42] we kind of come at this from our personal experience a little differently I really like
[00:41:48] first well depending on the person it depends on the person for me personally and all that I
[00:41:53] shared about the way that I'm wired for me personally like I really liked it was helpful
[00:41:59] for me to learn like okay how is my body feeling right now what's coming up in my body
[00:42:04] where do I feel it what's the sensation like and then what is the associated emotion
[00:42:10] and so going at it from a more feeling perspective of you know versus like going rationally
[00:42:17] in okay well I think there's a few ways you can approach this I think there is I will note
[00:42:24] though really understanding how our emotions sit within our bodies is getting to the core
[00:42:30] and so learning how an emotion sits how that what the sensation is associated with that emotion
[00:42:37] is actually how we move through it and how we allow that energy to move that's why somatic
[00:42:42] therapies or even like a lot of trauma therapies focus on how it feels in the body and how it's
[00:42:48] sitting in the body and so I think that's actually more important than many of them and so
[00:42:53] let's start there because so emotions are you know anger joy sadness hope fear look at the feelings
[00:43:01] wheel you'll see a whole a whole lot of them those are kind of the main ones but then our emotions
[00:43:07] have an associated sensation in the body they live literally within the cells of our body and so
[00:43:12] sometimes joy might feel like openness expansion in the body almost like maybe lightness sadness
[00:43:19] can feel heavy guilt or shame can sometimes kind of live in the gut and have that like sinking you
[00:43:25] know got rich in feeling and so those are just some examples and so when we can start to recognize
[00:43:31] how emotions sit in our bodies it's actually really important so that we can help them move
[00:43:36] through and sometimes you're not always going to recognize it and I I've done this work
[00:43:42] for years and there's sometimes I still can't fully understand what it feels like in my body
[00:43:48] I have a pretty good idea just because of how much work I've done but it's not strong I'll say that
[00:43:53] sometimes it's not super strong there might just be a hint of it so that's one of the
[00:43:58] first way that we suggest you know working with emotions and sometimes that's your trial and
[00:44:04] error and that's where that's why I would send people to the feelings wheel is to start to
[00:44:09] recognize and then see if you can name it so basically the process you just said so I think
[00:44:14] you kind of just summed it up a little better than me so thank you oh simple yeah yeah now I think that
[00:44:21] the different explanations are probably helpful for different personality types yeah definitely
[00:44:27] that's why we talk so much about the brain body connection the body
[00:44:31] holds it all so let's get into it and work with it and not judge it just let the sensations
[00:44:36] flow and feel it another way that we usually suggest is journaling and this can be more from
[00:44:43] a thought oriented place right thinking talking out loud journaling but sometimes especially for
[00:44:49] avoiders that need to start feeling their emotions sometimes talking through something can help you
[00:44:54] understand how you feel but then I'm guessing I guess I'll ask you this from your perspective
[00:44:59] how does journaling help you yeah for me just doing like a brain dump is really helpful I'm not
[00:45:06] really trying to make complete sentences just you know if I'm feeling like a big emotion
[00:45:12] kind of like spewing on paper I've like historically felt really big feelings for me it's like
[00:45:17] bush like get it all out in a big way then I have another way that was has been like very powerful
[00:45:23] for me that could resonate with people yeah I think journaling can help in in different ways
[00:45:28] but kind of the central theme is just to get it all out so it's not stuck inside us literally
[00:45:34] outside of us we need to either talk it out or write it out instead of just thinking about it
[00:45:39] or feeling it it needs to come out so what is your other suggestion well again because feelings
[00:45:47] have always felt really big I think getting my body involved in moving through emotions especially
[00:45:53] when I first started this journey was really really really powerful for me because sitting
[00:45:59] still with emotions was just too unfamiliar and too uncomfortable though I had to move in a really
[00:46:06] big way so sometimes going for a run I got very into dancing and just kind of letting it all out
[00:46:12] with the music and then the way that one of the most very big impactful part and powerful part of
[00:46:19] my healing journey was getting into intuitive painting and take over my whole living here was
[00:46:24] the best and I would put a big canvas on my living room floor and I would just have paints
[00:46:29] all around me and I would just like throw paint I would literally dip my hands into giant
[00:46:34] panisters of house paint and just like smear it and just get really physical and so for many years
[00:46:40] the way that I dealt with my emotions that felt overwhelming literally anything I felt I would
[00:46:46] paint it out and it was I think when emotions feel very big and overwhelming using the body
[00:46:54] it was like a very big and powerful experience very expressive for me that was more helpful
[00:47:01] at the time because it allowed me to use all of my senses in a way and get messy and be okay with
[00:47:08] it and I loved it I'm very passionate about that work that sounds wonderful just to like
[00:47:15] intuitively do that but also just to have kind of no boundaries around it right just letting
[00:47:20] yourself go with it which is what's needed in any kind of emotional work allowing that to
[00:47:25] glow without judgment right without meaning like I've said a million times so far but it
[00:47:30] comes up so easily I think that's why I'm saying it because that judgment around it can come up so easily
[00:47:36] so yeah and movement I mean is so huge and for me as well I know we connect on that because
[00:47:44] it is it's the thing that I love the most dancing it's huge for me I definitely feel
[00:47:49] when I dance so yeah moving your body in any kind of way you don't have to be coordinated
[00:47:55] you don't have to be pretty at it like it doesn't need to look any kind of way at all
[00:48:00] the whole point is just to move and allow that energy to shift and go one last thing I will say
[00:48:07] around how to feel is around grieving a lot of people want to understand how to grieve right
[00:48:14] and so really with grieving and just feeling anything heavy and stuck that you can't figure
[00:48:20] out or can't fix is something that it's hard I will say like it takes a lot of practice because
[00:48:25] the whole point of feeling things that are stuck like grief that we can't figure out we can't fix
[00:48:30] there's nothing to change or do about it is is to feel it and have containers around it so I
[00:48:37] will say that no matter whether you're an abhorter you're feeling like grief is heavy
[00:48:42] it's hard it's emotional and so what I've been doing actually that's really helped me
[00:48:49] is I can't definitely can't always control when it comes up it hits when it's gonna hit
[00:48:54] but knowing that I can take the time even if well I'll say this two parts to it one if I do pop
[00:49:01] the time I will let myself feel for a little bit just let myself sit in it and then know
[00:49:06] that there's basically a time limit like okay you know what I am going to stop here and
[00:49:11] I'm going to move on with my day I'm going to acknowledge myself and I'm going to take care of
[00:49:14] myself and I'm going to say you know what I truly care for you and I'm here for you and I know
[00:49:20] this is hard and it knows this is difficult but I'm going to set you to the side for a little bit
[00:49:24] because I am going to move throughout my day because I have to obviously live in reality
[00:49:28] and and move through it and then also on the other side of that if it comes up and you
[00:49:33] you know literally can't just sit and feel doing that same last piece as acknowledging
[00:49:39] like yes this is heavy yes this is hard I do I see you I feel you I'm going to put you
[00:49:45] in a little box for a little bit and I actually imagine like I visualize myself putting that
[00:49:50] grief in a box not repressing it not pushing it down but just putting it to the side
[00:49:56] and reminding myself like I will come back to you I'm not pushing you down I will come back
[00:50:01] to you but it do need to move throughout my day or whatever I'm doing anything you have to add
[00:50:06] to that now I just I love that I think the container is a really powerful way to acknowledge
[00:50:13] when that comes up and allows your brain and body to again trust that it's safe trust that you've
[00:50:20] got it that you're not like you said pushing it down and I think the other piece that is important
[00:50:25] is that time limit element I think a lot of times especially if somebody's not used to feeling
[00:50:32] their emotions I hear a lot that people are worried that if they let themselves feel
[00:50:38] they're never going to stop feeling and they're just going to just deep dive and just emotional
[00:50:43] pit that's going to be impossible to come over come out of because there's just so much
[00:50:48] another thing that I love is you know there's some studies that show that when you express an
[00:50:54] emotion your brain completely expresses it within 90 seconds and so if it's something that is obviously
[00:51:04] like you're grieving you're not going to grieve one time like it's a process right but I like to
[00:51:10] share that with people because you're not going to just start crying and like generally speaking I
[00:51:17] understand there's depression there's different things but generally speaking learning to feel
[00:51:21] your feelings is not going to send you into this pit that you'll never be able to get out of
[00:51:26] it's actually when you start you're likely going to feel a big weight taken off of you
[00:51:33] you may be tired because it's again it's a new pathway so for your brain it's like
[00:51:38] great but where are we going to pick a little more energy but there should be a lightness
[00:51:43] that also comes with that tiredness and I think that's that's always something important
[00:51:48] that I like to share with people when they're like tipping their toes into feelings because it
[00:51:52] can feel overwhelming when you vent your whole life completely turned off and disconnected from that
[00:52:01] but I think having that container of saying hey I'm just going to take five minutes to explore
[00:52:07] this area of myself and allow myself to feel these things can be really really powerful
[00:52:13] you don't have to spend you know all day doing this yeah definitely okay anything else you have to ask
[00:52:20] I don't I think we've got a good well-rounded formation of everything amazing okay well they
[00:52:27] keep your tuning in and listening and I hope this is helpful and we will see you soon
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[00:53:00] and I hope this brings you hope on your journey