What I’d Focus On If I Were Starting Over Healing Chronic Pain & Illness

[00:00:00] Here's what I'd want my early stage self to know,
[00:00:03] is that discomfort isn't dangerous.
[00:00:05] My inability to be with discomfort
[00:00:07] was what was keeping my nervous system in threat mode,
[00:00:10] not the discomfort itself.
[00:00:12] The not being able to stay with it was disregulating.
[00:00:17] So building tolerance for discomfort
[00:00:19] is the most important skill in healing
[00:00:22] and honestly just in life.
[00:00:23] And not many people understand that or teach it.
[00:00:26] Hey there, and welcome to the Heal With Grace podcast.
[00:00:30] I'm your host, Grace Secker,
[00:00:32] and I'm a holistic licensed therapist
[00:00:34] and nervous system coach who believes
[00:00:36] that the chronic and often unseen symptoms
[00:00:39] you're living with are a sign of something deeper going on.
[00:00:43] A sign that your nervous system needs attention.
[00:00:45] In each episode, I'll share the science
[00:00:47] behind the most common chronic health disorders
[00:00:50] plus holistic tips using mental, physical,
[00:00:53] and spiritual practices.
[00:00:54] You'll hear what I've learned in my journey
[00:00:56] and the true stories from our trusted guests
[00:00:58] so you can feel less alone in your experience
[00:01:01] and give yourself grace no matter what you're going through.
[00:01:04] So without further ado, settle in and get cozy.
[00:01:07] It's time to Heal With Grace.
[00:01:09] Hello, hello, and welcome back
[00:01:11] to the Heal With Grace podcast.
[00:01:13] Today is going to be an episode
[00:01:15] where I take you back with me to the early stages
[00:01:18] of when I was in a lot of my symptoms
[00:01:21] where I was reading every book,
[00:01:23] trying every protocol,
[00:01:25] crying in every single doctor's office,
[00:01:28] spending money I didn't have, spending family money,
[00:01:31] and there are specific things that I would do differently now
[00:01:35] if I knew what I knew,
[00:01:36] which you can't always know what you don't know, right?
[00:01:40] That's just life.
[00:01:41] But there are things I can very much so see
[00:01:45] that if I can name it now,
[00:01:46] I hope that I can help you save a little time suffering,
[00:01:51] right?
[00:01:52] If you're in the early stages right now
[00:01:54] where you feel sick or in pain, you're scared,
[00:01:56] you're trying so hard and nothing's working,
[00:01:58] I see you, I was that, I was you,
[00:02:01] and I know how exhausting it is mentally,
[00:02:04] physically, spiritually.
[00:02:05] And what I wanna say is that
[00:02:09] of course you're doing everything you can.
[00:02:11] Yes, it is stressing you out
[00:02:12] to be hyper-vigilant towards your health,
[00:02:15] but also there's very real reason that you are.
[00:02:19] And if anyone has ever told you
[00:02:22] to look at your nervous system,
[00:02:23] I actually just had a client
[00:02:24] who joined the Mind Body Healing Method
[00:02:26] say that she's had a couple different practitioners
[00:02:28] tell her that they think that she needs
[00:02:30] to work with her nervous system
[00:02:31] in some way, shape, or form,
[00:02:33] or maybe get some therapy.
[00:02:34] And she didn't say that it felt like a dismissal,
[00:02:37] she just didn't really lean into it,
[00:02:39] but now she is and she's really grateful that she is.
[00:02:41] And that was neat.
[00:02:42] I can literally think back,
[00:02:44] there's a functional practitioner I went to
[00:02:46] in Austin actually,
[00:02:47] where I very much so didn't listen.
[00:02:51] I was just so overwhelmed.
[00:02:54] And he gave me this pamphlet of a rewiring program,
[00:02:58] like a brain rewiring very much, so brain training.
[00:03:01] And I completely dismissed it.
[00:03:03] I was like, what is he telling me?
[00:03:04] I don't understand what this is.
[00:03:06] A lot of money, like no way, shape, or form,
[00:03:09] am I doing that?
[00:03:10] I don't have the time to do it.
[00:03:11] I'm still trying to work right now.
[00:03:13] I was in the early stages
[00:03:14] of owning a private practice
[00:03:16] and also now you're asking me to spend all this money
[00:03:18] on supplements and blood work and IVs and all these things.
[00:03:23] I can't also do that.
[00:03:24] I just was like, no,
[00:03:26] I'm not even gonna give that the time of day.
[00:03:28] Well, I really wish I would have at that time.
[00:03:31] He knew who he was talking to.
[00:03:33] He read me well.
[00:03:35] I fit all the personality characteristics
[00:03:37] and all the symptoms associated
[00:03:39] with someone who needed to work
[00:03:40] on their brain and nervous system,
[00:03:42] but I was not ready for that.
[00:03:44] And so, yes, I do believe that everyone has their time
[00:03:48] and place to getting to this work
[00:03:49] and you can't really force it.
[00:03:50] At the same time, I think awareness is really big, right?
[00:03:54] If I knew there were podcasts out there
[00:03:56] or people talking about this and I listened to those,
[00:03:59] I probably would have come to this work earlier,
[00:04:01] but I didn't.
[00:04:02] And so that's why this podcast exists
[00:04:04] to get the word out there more.
[00:04:06] But my point being is that I hope that this helps you
[00:04:10] lean into, okay, these are things I can do for myself
[00:04:13] while I'm going through this journey.
[00:04:15] So I just wanna share with you what I've reflected on
[00:04:17] and what I really believe would have helped me a lot more
[00:04:19] if I did in my journey.
[00:04:21] So first and foremost, education,
[00:04:25] which if you're listening to this, you're doing, right?
[00:04:27] You're educating yourself on the nervous system,
[00:04:30] on modern pain science.
[00:04:32] We can't change anything if we're not aware of it.
[00:04:35] So before any protocol or supplement
[00:04:38] or any extensive program,
[00:04:39] I would have educated myself
[00:04:41] on what's actually happening in my body.
[00:04:44] So much of the time I just gave my power over
[00:04:46] to whatever they told me,
[00:04:47] whatever whoever was telling me, right?
[00:04:50] And that goes for me, like as a practitioner,
[00:04:52] like if you're one of my clients,
[00:04:54] I still, I don't want you to do everything
[00:04:56] that I say or tell you.
[00:04:57] It's also not how I operate.
[00:04:59] I don't just like tell you to do all these things,
[00:05:02] but you know what I mean.
[00:05:03] I don't want you to just accept everything
[00:05:06] that I'm saying is truth for you.
[00:05:08] I really want you to help yourself.
[00:05:12] That's how healing works.
[00:05:13] So education is wonderful, like start with education.
[00:05:18] Understand what's actually happening in your mind body
[00:05:20] and that your symptoms are neuroplastic,
[00:05:23] which means that they are brain derived.
[00:05:25] They are physically happening in the body,
[00:05:27] but the root cause is brain nervous system,
[00:05:31] not necessarily whatever the physical manifestation
[00:05:35] of your symptoms are.
[00:05:37] Like a bulge disc or a viral infection
[00:05:41] or Epstein virus or a leaky gut or SIBO
[00:05:46] or something like that, right?
[00:05:48] So yes, those things are true,
[00:05:50] but the cause is your brain and your nervous system
[00:05:53] and that's what you're here to learn about.
[00:05:54] So learn about it, understand it, listen to this podcast,
[00:05:59] read a book, yeah, understand
[00:06:00] first and foremost education all the way.
[00:06:04] The second thing that I would have done
[00:06:06] is to stick with it, to stop constantly searching.
[00:06:10] I am notorious, I don't know about you,
[00:06:12] but I have been in the past notorious
[00:06:14] for starting something and switching tactics
[00:06:17] when it didn't go how I wanted it
[00:06:19] or it didn't happen quickly enough.
[00:06:20] And that is a strong indicator
[00:06:23] that my nervous system was resisting what I actually needed.
[00:06:27] So what happens in this work a lot
[00:06:29] is that either we don't make progress quick enough
[00:06:31] or something starts to come up unconsciously,
[00:06:34] which is the whole point,
[00:06:36] but your conscious brain goes,
[00:06:37] uh-uh, I don't wanna do that.
[00:06:39] By the way, you're not saying that necessarily.
[00:06:41] This is just what's happening.
[00:06:42] Your subconscious is telling you, I don't wanna go there.
[00:06:45] I don't wanna bring up the emotions I've never felt
[00:06:48] or this brain training and nervous system regulation work
[00:06:51] is fricking hard.
[00:06:52] I just wanna take a pill.
[00:06:54] So this isn't working, right?
[00:06:56] So there's gonna be a lot of excuses that come up
[00:06:58] and it's not to say you're lazy
[00:07:00] and you just can't do it.
[00:07:01] It just is a natural pattern.
[00:07:03] So I wish that I would have understood that.
[00:07:06] I wish I would have understood
[00:07:07] that every time I do a switch,
[00:07:09] every time my body says, stop, you can't.
[00:07:13] That's just resistance.
[00:07:14] That is just my brain saying, we're not safe yet.
[00:07:17] Keep looking, something is still wrong.
[00:07:19] And as long as my brain was getting that message,
[00:07:21] my body couldn't relax.
[00:07:23] So the searching itself was actually keeping me sick,
[00:07:27] right?
[00:07:27] The more I searched, the more I tried,
[00:07:29] the less I actually stuck with something
[00:07:31] and the less something could actually ever help me.
[00:07:34] So if I were starting over,
[00:07:35] I would learn to be present with where I am
[00:07:37] instead of always searching for where I should be.
[00:07:41] And that doesn't mean to stop learning.
[00:07:42] It doesn't mean to stop understanding.
[00:07:45] It just means stop frantically consuming,
[00:07:49] changing, shifting, right?
[00:07:51] So it means like, well, I'm gonna call you out
[00:07:55] if this is you.
[00:07:56] There are some times when I would see therapy clients
[00:07:59] where I'd have someone say,
[00:08:01] well, I've seen this therapist or that therapist,
[00:08:03] but they've never really gone for more than about five times.
[00:08:06] And to me, that usually says,
[00:08:08] okay, their nervous system is resisting something.
[00:08:10] There's definitely something there.
[00:08:11] There's some avoidance.
[00:08:13] Now I'm not saying that it doesn't take,
[00:08:15] sometimes it takes time to find the right fit.
[00:08:17] It does, very much so does.
[00:08:19] So there's nuance there.
[00:08:21] But if that's a constant pattern,
[00:08:23] you switch from one program to the next
[00:08:25] because it's not working very well.
[00:08:28] That just tells me that your nervous system
[00:08:30] is on a high alert and probably resisting a lot.
[00:08:32] Number three, this kind of goes a long number too,
[00:08:36] but I'm naming it in a different way.
[00:08:39] So recognizing that my tolerance for discomfort
[00:08:43] was keeping me in pain.
[00:08:46] I honestly didn't connect this
[00:08:49] till pretty late on in my journey.
[00:08:51] I didn't understand the whole idea behind capacity
[00:08:54] in our nervous systems.
[00:08:55] I got to a place where I recognized,
[00:08:57] okay, I'm doing pretty well.
[00:08:59] I'm pretty stable, but anything more stressful
[00:09:03] than just everyday stuff would impact me deeply.
[00:09:07] Whether that would mean I would have some sort of pain
[00:09:10] in my body or I would crash with fatigue
[00:09:12] or something like that.
[00:09:14] And that's because I wasn't really working
[00:09:17] with the capacity in my nervous system,
[00:09:19] which means I wasn't able to sit
[00:09:21] with things that were uncomfortable.
[00:09:23] That's not a personal failing.
[00:09:24] That's not because you're weak.
[00:09:26] That wasn't because I was weak.
[00:09:27] That's because my nervous system
[00:09:28] literally never learned that.
[00:09:30] It's normal for a stress nervous system to stay small.
[00:09:33] So basically every time I subconsciously felt
[00:09:36] a certain sensation and emotion,
[00:09:38] uncertainty, something didn't go well,
[00:09:41] I would rush to fix it, research it, make it go away.
[00:09:44] Anxiety would kick in and I would start spiraling.
[00:09:47] And then my body would collapse and dissociate.
[00:09:49] But here's what I'd want my early stage self to know
[00:09:52] is that discomfort isn't dangerous.
[00:09:54] My inability to be with discomfort
[00:09:57] was what was keeping my nervous system in threat mode,
[00:10:00] not the discomfort itself.
[00:10:02] The not being able to stay with it was dysregulating.
[00:10:07] So building tolerance for discomfort
[00:10:10] is the most important skill in healing
[00:10:12] and honestly just in life.
[00:10:15] And not many people understand that or teach it.
[00:10:17] I think in any generation this is taught or not learned,
[00:10:21] but I do think us millennials and other
[00:10:24] and higher generations, older generations,
[00:10:27] very much so embody this.
[00:10:28] We really never learned to be with things
[00:10:30] that were uncomfortable.
[00:10:31] And so it is hard to go throughout life
[00:10:34] because there's plenty of things that are uncomfortable.
[00:10:37] So I'm gonna put that out there.
[00:10:40] Take with it what you will
[00:10:41] depending on where you are in your journey,
[00:10:43] maybe you resonate with that, maybe you don't.
[00:10:46] But this could be literally anything
[00:10:48] from an uncomfortable conversation with someone, right?
[00:10:51] You don't wanna get into conflict with someone
[00:10:54] or to an emotion that's uncomfortable.
[00:10:58] Like you're starting to feel sad and you're like,
[00:10:59] it's okay, I'm okay, I'm sorry for crying.
[00:11:03] You're basically saying that's uncomfortable,
[00:11:04] which it doesn't have to be pleasurable.
[00:11:07] I mean, you can get to that point, but anyway.
[00:11:10] Now I'm rambling.
[00:11:11] And my point being is that I hope that you understand
[00:11:15] that the reason why your system is on high alert
[00:11:18] is because you don't have the capacity
[00:11:19] to deal with stressful, uncomfortable feelings or situations.
[00:11:23] And this work helps expand that,
[00:11:25] which is like the biggest thing you can do in life
[00:11:27] in my opinion.
[00:11:28] Number four, I want you to understand
[00:11:30] or I wish I would have understood
[00:11:32] that relief is temporary, but trust is regulating, right?
[00:11:39] So if I were starting over, I would stop chasing relief
[00:11:43] and I would start building trust in myself
[00:11:46] that I can handle whatever is gonna happen.
[00:11:48] Short-term relief is short-term relief.
[00:11:51] It doesn't always mean that it's gonna help you long-term, right?
[00:11:54] So you take an Advil, you take a supplement
[00:11:57] that might help you feel a little bit better.
[00:11:58] You put a cream on your body
[00:12:00] and it'll help subside the sensations.
[00:12:03] Maybe it does for some of you, probably doesn't.
[00:12:05] That's okay.
[00:12:06] There's nothing wrong about that,
[00:12:08] but that's not long-term trust.
[00:12:12] If you do the meditation,
[00:12:14] you might feel calm for that moment.
[00:12:17] You get the massage, you get the adjustment,
[00:12:19] you get the IV drip or whatever it is
[00:12:22] and you feel okay for a day or two,
[00:12:23] but then you're back to baseline.
[00:12:25] You have to continue to do these things
[00:12:28] over and over and over to help yourself,
[00:12:31] but just remember relief is a moment, it's not a goal.
[00:12:34] So for example, I still do have a syncope response.
[00:12:40] So I've had many times of passing out in my life.
[00:12:43] When I've gotten blood drawn, I've been in the hospital
[00:12:45] or someone else has been in the hospital.
[00:12:47] I have that response.
[00:12:49] So when I used to start to get the feeling of nausea,
[00:12:52] like I could, if you've been there, you know,
[00:12:54] you start to feel those feelings, heat.
[00:12:56] I feel hot, I feel nauseous, I feel maybe a little dizzy.
[00:12:59] I can tell the signs where I'm getting to that place
[00:13:02] or my nervous system is like, oh my gosh,
[00:13:04] too scary, too scary, we're gonna shut down.
[00:13:07] I used to respond to that feeling with so much fear.
[00:13:10] Oh my God, oh my God, what am I gonna do?
[00:13:12] I don't know how to handle this,
[00:13:13] and then I would have just passed out right away.
[00:13:15] Trust is the goal.
[00:13:17] Trust is regulating and trust comes from three things.
[00:13:21] Staying present when symptoms show up,
[00:13:25] knowing that it is temporary and it won't last forever,
[00:13:28] instead of scrambling to escape them,
[00:13:30] spiraling into wondering what's wrong,
[00:13:32] how it's gonna take you out of your life,
[00:13:34] letting sensations arise and fall
[00:13:37] without narrating them into danger, right?
[00:13:40] That is the goal, letting them arise, being with them.
[00:13:43] Again, remember knowing you can be in discomfort
[00:13:46] and then learning that discomfort
[00:13:48] doesn't require immediate action.
[00:13:49] Trust comes from consistency, not intensity,
[00:13:53] so from doing less and not more.
[00:13:56] The slow, borrowing, daily practices of telling your body
[00:14:00] what actually rewires a nervous system
[00:14:02] and then when you have those experiences
[00:14:04] where you've had really difficult symptoms
[00:14:06] or maybe you've been in a car for a long time
[00:14:08] when you're uncomfortable, you get through that, right?
[00:14:11] It doesn't last forever, but in the moment
[00:14:13] your brain thinks, oh my gosh, danger,
[00:14:15] this is really bad, I'm in so much pain,
[00:14:17] we have to change that experience to trust.
[00:14:20] Trust that your body will release that in time
[00:14:24] and know that she'll be okay.
[00:14:25] It's not a magic protocol,
[00:14:27] but it is the consistent practice of trust
[00:14:30] that really builds the safety and security in your body.
[00:14:34] Want to take a pause for a second,
[00:14:36] because if everything I'm saying is hitting you
[00:14:39] and resonating with you,
[00:14:41] what I'm really going through
[00:14:43] is the foundation of the Mind Body Healing Method,
[00:14:46] the program that I built exactly for this.
[00:14:48] And I'll talk a little bit more about it at the end,
[00:14:53] but for now I want you to understand
[00:14:56] that you can listen to this all day long, right?
[00:14:57] Like you can educate yourself, you can read the books,
[00:15:00] but being in an environment and a community
[00:15:03] where you get to grow with others
[00:15:05] and ask your questions and understand
[00:15:07] what it really feels like to be in safety and security
[00:15:10] in your nervous system
[00:15:11] and then see that everyone else is doing it too.
[00:15:14] That is power, that builds trust and security
[00:15:17] just by seeing other people do it.
[00:15:19] That's the whole point
[00:15:20] behind the Mind Body Healing Method,
[00:15:21] helping you understand what's going on
[00:15:24] and how to change your body's response to stress
[00:15:28] and doing it alongside with others who can support you.
[00:15:30] So if that feels like a good fit,
[00:15:33] you can find the link below to enroll.
[00:15:34] We are enrolling now.
[00:15:37] All right, back to number five.
[00:15:40] Working on my relationship with my body
[00:15:42] before it feels better.
[00:15:44] Oof, I was that person that was like,
[00:15:47] well, I'll do this when,
[00:15:48] I'll do this when I feel better.
[00:15:50] I'll do this after my symptoms go away.
[00:15:52] That just delays your progress.
[00:15:55] I want you to think about being in your life
[00:15:57] and being in your body before anything actually changes
[00:16:02] because when your body has hurt you,
[00:16:04] scared you, betrayed you for months or years,
[00:16:06] the last thing you wanna do
[00:16:07] is have a loving relationship with it, right?
[00:16:09] You probably have no idea how to relate to your body
[00:16:11] in a kind and supportive way
[00:16:13] because it just isn't pain and it hurts.
[00:16:17] You feel like it's working against you,
[00:16:18] but the paradox is that
[00:16:20] as long as you're at war with your body,
[00:16:22] it can't relax.
[00:16:23] And as long as you're treating it like the enemy,
[00:16:25] your nervous system is going to stay in protection.
[00:16:28] So when you do this work,
[00:16:31] when you start sending messages of safety,
[00:16:33] you stop scanning for symptoms
[00:16:35] and when you start thanking it instead of fighting it,
[00:16:38] your body starts to soften.
[00:16:40] So I wish I would have understood
[00:16:42] that actually instead of seeing my body as the enemy
[00:16:45] and seeing it as a loving part of me
[00:16:48] would have really helped the whole process of healing.
[00:16:51] Last but not least,
[00:16:53] I wish I would have known that healing
[00:16:54] doesn't come from finding the perfect approach.
[00:16:56] And this one kind of goes in line
[00:17:00] with the other ones that I said before,
[00:17:02] meaning I wish I wouldn't have jumped around a lot.
[00:17:06] I kept thinking, well, this isn't it.
[00:17:07] I gotta find a different coach.
[00:17:08] I gotta find a different therapist.
[00:17:10] I gotta find something else
[00:17:11] that's gonna work for me, a different doctor, whatever.
[00:17:13] But healing doesn't come from finally finding
[00:17:15] the perfect approach.
[00:17:17] It comes from all the above, right?
[00:17:19] I've gotten this question too,
[00:17:21] like what makes your program different than others?
[00:17:23] Like why would this be better than the other ones?
[00:17:25] I don't actually know if my program's better
[00:17:28] than the other ones.
[00:17:29] I personally take in other programs,
[00:17:31] but I think it's a little bit different,
[00:17:34] but it doesn't mean it's better.
[00:17:36] Honestly, most of us in the mind-body world
[00:17:38] are all saying very similar things,
[00:17:41] just in a little bit of a different way.
[00:17:43] So choose who you resonate with.
[00:17:45] The person that speaks to you the most,
[00:17:47] the person that you understand more
[00:17:49] and every time you listen to them
[00:17:51] or most of the time you listen to them,
[00:17:53] you think, oh yeah, that hits
[00:17:55] or you watch their content online or whatever it is.
[00:17:58] You have this feeling that like, oh, I resonate with them.
[00:18:01] I've done that so many times with mentors, therapists,
[00:18:03] teachers where I'm like, oh yeah,
[00:18:06] that feels like a good fit
[00:18:07] because they have a lot of experience
[00:18:08] that I wanna learn from.
[00:18:10] They're speaking to me in a way that I understand.
[00:18:13] And then over time, maybe I've learned
[00:18:15] as much as I needed to learn from them and I move on.
[00:18:18] And that is totally normal, right?
[00:18:21] So stop the endless search for the perfect thing
[00:18:25] and just start, just start somewhere.
[00:18:28] Because you will get something from everything that you try
[00:18:31] as long as you're open to it.
[00:18:34] The ability to commit to a path
[00:18:36] is trusting in the process, right?
[00:18:38] So the perfect approach doesn't necessarily exist.
[00:18:42] It's really just a solid approach plus consistency
[00:18:45] plus nervous system trust is usually how it helps.
[00:18:49] So these are just a little tidbits, a few tidbits.
[00:18:54] And I hope it helps you.
[00:18:56] Really the foundation is that
[00:18:59] if you can educate yourself on what's actually happening,
[00:19:02] stop frantically searching,
[00:19:04] build tolerance for discomfort,
[00:19:07] case trust instead of relief,
[00:19:10] repair your relationship with your body,
[00:19:13] stay consistent and stop looking for the perfect answer.
[00:19:17] That's it, that's all you gotta do, right?
[00:19:19] I'm kidding.
[00:19:20] I understand that that's a journey and that's a process.
[00:19:23] And if this episode resonated with you
[00:19:25] and if my approach resonates with you,
[00:19:28] I would absolutely love to support you in your process.
[00:19:32] And that is exactly what the mind, body healing method
[00:19:35] is meant.
[00:19:36] It's the only way to work with me right now.
[00:19:38] If you come in, you get a community
[00:19:40] with everyone doing it just like you.
[00:19:42] You get me in the community chat room
[00:19:44] answering your questions, supporting you.
[00:19:46] And then you get me on the group call
[00:19:48] calls twice a month.
[00:19:50] So it's a really wonderful space.
[00:19:52] It's honestly what I wish I would have had
[00:19:54] in my early days, but nothing like that really existed.
[00:19:57] And now it does.
[00:19:58] So it's also the curriculum is self-paced.
[00:20:00] You can move at your own time,
[00:20:02] but you also get that support from me and everyone else.
[00:20:04] If you have any questions, let me know.
[00:20:06] I'll help you figure out if it's the right fit.
[00:20:08] And until next time,
[00:20:10] take care of yourself and keep healing with Grace.
[00:20:14] If this podcast means something to you,
[00:20:16] it would mean so much to me
[00:20:17] if you could do these couple things.
[00:20:19] One, go to the Heal with Grace show page
[00:20:21] wherever you listen and tap the plus sign
[00:20:23] or click on the follow button
[00:20:25] so you don't miss an episode.
[00:20:26] It helps both of us out.
[00:20:28] While you're there, if you could give a five star review
[00:20:31] so that this podcast can reach more people,
[00:20:34] it would mean so much to me.
[00:20:35] So I can continue sharing episodes
[00:20:37] that help you as well as others.
[00:20:39] Thanks for listening.
[00:20:40] And I hope this brings you hope on your journey.