Healing ME/CFS Using Brain Training and Nervous System Regulation

[00:00:00] Hey there, and welcome to Heal with Grace.
[00:00:03] I'm your host, Grace Secker, and I'm a holistic, licensed therapist and nervous system coach
[00:00:08] who believes that the chronic and often unseen symptoms you're living with are a sign of
[00:00:12] something deeper going on.
[00:00:14] A sign that your nervous system needs attention.
[00:00:17] In each episode, I'll share the science behind the most common chronic health disorders
[00:00:21] plus holistic health tips using mental, physical, and spiritual practices.
[00:00:26] You'll hear what I've learned in my journey and the true stories from our trusted guests
[00:00:30] so you can feel less alone in your experience and give yourself grace no matter what you're
[00:00:34] going through.
[00:00:36] So without further ado, settle in and get cozy.
[00:00:38] It's time to Heal with Grace.
[00:00:42] Hello, and welcome back to the Heal with Grace podcast.
[00:00:45] I have our special guest, Lindsay Vine.
[00:00:49] She helps people with ME, CFS, chronic fatigue, long COVID, fibromyalgia, and other sensitivity
[00:00:55] disorders heal through coaching and online recovery programs, navigation support.
[00:01:01] With a master's degree in public health and after seven years of healing from debilitating
[00:01:06] illness, she is dedicated to connecting those suffering with the resources they need to
[00:01:11] heal.
[00:01:12] So I am so excited to have her on because we're going to have her share her story
[00:01:17] and really help you understand what exactly is the program navigator to.
[00:01:22] So I want to say thanks for being here.
[00:01:24] Hi, Grace.
[00:01:25] Nice to be here.
[00:01:26] So okay, can you tell us a little bit more about just really how you came to do what you
[00:01:32] do now?
[00:01:33] Yeah, sure.
[00:01:35] So yeah, like I said, in my bio, I was sick for seven years about that with ME, CFS, before
[00:01:42] I got to the point where I could work again.
[00:01:46] And through my journey, I really learned that doing something you're passionate about
[00:01:51] can be so beneficial on the nervous system.
[00:01:56] And it was a funny thing, my master's is in public health, but I never really knew what
[00:02:00] I wanted to do with that.
[00:02:02] And this was kind of an interesting area to me, all the mind, body work, the stuff
[00:02:07] that I had been learning about.
[00:02:09] And I wanted to work more personally with people than working in the public health
[00:02:14] system.
[00:02:15] You're so removed.
[00:02:16] So it really felt like an exciting area.
[00:02:19] And I'd done a lot of work in program evaluation.
[00:02:23] And I'd taken multiple online programs.
[00:02:25] So I was like, maybe I can help people choose the right online program for them.
[00:02:31] And speaking to my friend, he'll with Liz, Liz Carlson, she had a similar idea.
[00:02:36] And we talked about making a guide with all the programs that are out there.
[00:02:41] So people could choose then like really get a good idea of what they're getting
[00:02:44] into before signing up to some of these are very expensive programs.
[00:02:49] So we ended up, yeah, doing that, making a programs guide.
[00:02:52] It's available on my website.
[00:02:54] And from that, I also started helping people one-on-one.
[00:02:57] I figured out all these categories to try and nail down what would be the best
[00:03:01] program for them.
[00:03:03] And that's where my program navigation started.
[00:03:06] And then I, more recently in the last six months or so, it just had a lot
[00:03:11] of people being like, can you just coach me?
[00:03:14] And I decided to just take the leap and start coaching myself because I was a
[00:03:19] little bit afraid of like, you know, the responsibility of the one being in
[00:03:23] charge of their health and their path.
[00:03:26] I was like, it was nicer for me to be like, go over here.
[00:03:29] They'll help you, you know.
[00:03:31] But it's been actually really, really rewarding and great.
[00:03:35] I've learned so much.
[00:03:37] My clients are doing so well.
[00:03:39] And it's so interesting because it's always such a puzzle to figure
[00:03:42] out what people need.
[00:03:44] And if they're open to it, it can make such great progress.
[00:03:48] Yeah.
[00:03:49] You have really figured out how to help people in a different way than I think
[00:03:54] the norm is, right?
[00:03:55] Especially just understanding how to navigate programs.
[00:03:58] And actually, I want to back up a minute because there's probably
[00:04:02] some people listening to this that don't even understand programs, right?
[00:04:05] So can you describe that?
[00:04:07] Yeah.
[00:04:08] So it's like a product of our times.
[00:04:12] There's a ton of online programs out there now that can help you heal
[00:04:18] through mind, body, medicine.
[00:04:20] And I'll talk about what that means.
[00:04:22] But yeah, there's over.
[00:04:24] Right now we have 27 programs in our guide now.
[00:04:28] And then we started, you know, with the biggest ones out there
[00:04:32] people have heard of is like brain retraining programs usually.
[00:04:35] That's like DNRS, the Gupta program, lightning process, ANS reward.
[00:04:41] Those were like the first in this kind of area of helping people
[00:04:44] heal using neuroplasticity.
[00:04:47] And then people realized that they could combine that with somatic healing methods.
[00:04:53] So that's another area of mind, body, health, which I know you've talked about
[00:04:58] a lot and you do a lot in your program.
[00:05:00] So some programs are more on the somatic side.
[00:05:03] Some combine both the brain stuff and we combine the body stuff in a really cool way.
[00:05:09] And then there's ones because with specifically with ME-CFS, fibromyalgia,
[00:05:14] and really all of these sensitivity disorders, pacing is really important.
[00:05:19] And there's of course lifestyle choices that are really important.
[00:05:22] So some of the programs out there focused more on the lifestyle stuff.
[00:05:26] Like people need a basis of like, how much should I be doing?
[00:05:32] What generally should I be eating?
[00:05:34] Like how do I get better sleep?
[00:05:36] Like there's a lot of lifestyle stuff too.
[00:05:39] So there's some programs more focused on that.
[00:05:41] And then the fourth area, so there's lifestyle, brain retraining, somatics.
[00:05:47] And then the fourth area that we found there's programs in is self-discovery work.
[00:05:52] So that includes more of like the trauma work and what should you be doing with your life?
[00:05:59] You know, like figuring out your true values and following the path that feels right for you.
[00:06:05] And yeah, that kind of stuff.
[00:06:06] What's your purpose?
[00:06:07] What's your passion?
[00:06:08] Also spirituality for some people is a big area.
[00:06:12] So we took, we kind of took those four areas and we put programs in each of them
[00:06:16] and some of them over, overlie each other.
[00:06:19] And we gave people like show them the choices.
[00:06:22] They're out there online for how you could help yourself heal.
[00:06:25] And for me, I needed a bit of all four of those areas for sure.
[00:06:30] Yeah, I definitely did too.
[00:06:31] As you're talking, I'm thinking, I mean, they're all really important areas.
[00:06:36] And I think also along your journey, at least for me, each one has been important
[00:06:42] in different phases.
[00:06:43] And sometimes, of course, they all go together.
[00:06:45] But there's definitely periods in time where I have focused on one over another
[00:06:49] because that was more important to me at that time.
[00:06:52] So I can see how certain programs can meet different needs too.
[00:06:55] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:06:56] Some people are not ready for the trauma work.
[00:06:59] Like if your nervous system is so over-activated, you can't even get
[00:07:03] out of the push crash cycle.
[00:07:05] You're not ready to dive into the traumas that may have caused this in the first place.
[00:07:12] And even brainer training and stuff, there's a lot you have to do to visualize.
[00:07:17] That can be a lot if you have brain fog.
[00:07:19] So you have to really start with basics, depending on what level you're at
[00:07:23] and what you already know.
[00:07:24] Your previous knowledge in this area too helps decide what you need.
[00:07:29] Yeah, that makes sense.
[00:07:30] OK, I have a couple other questions around those different areas.
[00:07:34] But I kind of want to back up because I think that I want to learn a little bit
[00:07:37] more about your story and how you got here.
[00:07:40] So can you speak to that?
[00:07:42] Yeah, so it was 2000.
[00:07:45] I was just finishing my master's degree.
[00:07:48] I literally handed in my thesis and my body like crashed the next day.
[00:07:54] I got so sick.
[00:07:55] I was already through my master's getting strep throat after strep throat
[00:07:59] and infections like all through my 20s, all kinds of infections.
[00:08:04] But of course, what do you do?
[00:08:05] You go to the doctor, you get antibiotics, you move on to the next.
[00:08:09] Like there was absolutely no self reflection on the fact that I was getting
[00:08:14] so many infections.
[00:08:15] And then, yeah, my master's program for me was very stressful.
[00:08:19] I made it very stressful on myself.
[00:08:22] I didn't really know what my end goal was.
[00:08:25] Public health is kind of a mix of arts and science students.
[00:08:29] So there's a lot of pre-med students.
[00:08:32] And I was comparing myself to them and calling myself dumb all the time.
[00:08:36] Like really, really negative self view.
[00:08:39] Even though I was doing really well and they loved my point of view,
[00:08:42] I felt lesser in a way.
[00:08:45] And it's a way with a lot of master's programs where it's like,
[00:08:48] you should be doing this.
[00:08:49] You should be networking.
[00:08:50] You should be doing more.
[00:08:51] And they give you hundreds of readings and you could read it all.
[00:08:55] So you're always feeling like you're trying to play catch up.
[00:08:59] And now in reflection, I was having anxiety attacks like in night.
[00:09:03] Like I was waking up in the night and I was like, couldn't breathe.
[00:09:07] I was just so dissociated in a way from what was going on in my body
[00:09:13] to just getting it done, getting it done.
[00:09:16] And when I finally did, my body was done.
[00:09:20] I also had a really interesting thing happen around that time as well
[00:09:23] where my roommate, who was a teacher, she got lice, you know,
[00:09:27] from the children in her class and brought it home.
[00:09:30] And I got it too.
[00:09:32] And we were passing it back and forth.
[00:09:34] And you can imagine with these illnesses, and we'll talk about this more,
[00:09:38] this hypervigilance of like, do I have it still?
[00:09:41] Is it there any time your head's a little itchy?
[00:09:44] It's like this triggering of your limbic system of like, oh no, oh no.
[00:09:49] Is somebody going to get it? Am I, do I still have it?
[00:09:51] And for me, I really do think that was a big piece
[00:09:55] of what turned my limbic system into full fight or flight zone.
[00:09:59] It was really put on overdrive through that.
[00:10:02] So it's a lot of little things that add up as usual
[00:10:05] with these kinds of illnesses until your body just says no more.
[00:10:09] It was done.
[00:10:11] So, yeah, that's how I got there.
[00:10:13] And then, yeah, the next five or so years, it was a struggle.
[00:10:19] I ended up moving to a small island off the coast of British Columbia.
[00:10:24] It was like, I'm going to go heal in nature.
[00:10:28] But actually, I really isolated myself.
[00:10:31] And there was probably mold there too,
[00:10:33] because like I'm living in these dank basements.
[00:10:36] It just like was really terrible time with COVID as well.
[00:10:39] No one could visit me.
[00:10:41] And I just got worse and worse and worse to the point where I was bed bound
[00:10:45] and living alone.
[00:10:47] And like I had piles of tuna cans beside my bed because I was like,
[00:10:50] I'll just eat this because I can't gather in any energy to go to the kitchen.
[00:10:56] And I had like a big Tupperware that I would just pee in beside my bed
[00:11:00] because I couldn't make it to the bathroom more than like once a day.
[00:11:03] Yeah, I was really, really sad to think about it.
[00:11:07] And that's, I think, my big turning point, though.
[00:11:09] That's when I was like, something needs to change, you know, or I'm done.
[00:11:14] Honestly, there were there was moments where I was like,
[00:11:17] I think I could just throw myself off these cliffs like trigger warning.
[00:11:21] But it really can get to that point when you just it nothing seems to be changing.
[00:11:26] Right. And that was about the time I asked for help.
[00:11:30] Finally, you're probably asking like nobody was helping this.
[00:11:35] But I just wasn't asking for it, you know, I like I would have taken it.
[00:11:39] But I needed to actually take the initiative to ask.
[00:11:42] And my stepdad helped me.
[00:11:44] The first program I did was CFS Health, Toby Morrison's program,
[00:11:48] which really helped me with building community.
[00:11:51] I made some good friends there and had some good little tips.
[00:11:55] But it helped with me just getting on the right road in general.
[00:11:58] And then my friends were so wonderful.
[00:12:02] They came, they got me off that island.
[00:12:04] They found me a place in Vancouver.
[00:12:06] They moved me and they started bringing me meals like people started to step up.
[00:12:11] Once I let people know how bad it was.
[00:12:14] And that's where things really started to change.
[00:12:17] And gradually I learned all the things I needed to in the mind body world.
[00:12:22] And slowly, slowly that one percent, one percent incremental changes
[00:12:26] added up to the point where now I'm fully healthy, like I can do spin classes
[00:12:31] and hiking and all these things that I was incredible.
[00:12:35] The difference that from what I went through.
[00:12:38] Yeah. Wow.
[00:12:39] That is, that's a pretty big story in terms of just like how,
[00:12:43] especially in the beginning, like you said, in grad school,
[00:12:45] your body was probably just maintaining for a little bit.
[00:12:48] Obviously sick and sick and kept getting sick,
[00:12:51] but didn't have that crash until you were almost kind of allowed to in a way.
[00:12:55] And then you are right.
[00:12:57] There's more often than not.
[00:12:59] And we can even talk about the positive and negative to this
[00:13:02] or kind of the pros and cons to it.
[00:13:03] But sometimes we have to get to that point to a point where it's just
[00:13:07] I don't know what to do anymore.
[00:13:09] What am I going to do to actually facilitate some steps forward
[00:13:14] and to heal and to reach out for support and help?
[00:13:18] Yeah, there's an interesting trend with like people having to hit a rock bottom
[00:13:22] before they're willing to really change.
[00:13:25] Like we're talking about changing the way you think, the way you
[00:13:28] the way you interact with your body, the way like all these things
[00:13:33] like somewhere near in the middle of my illness, one of my friends
[00:13:36] who's a counselor said, Lindsay, honestly,
[00:13:39] I'm pretty sure this is a trauma illness.
[00:13:41] And I said, what are you talking about?
[00:13:43] You know, I was like, oh, my childhood was fine.
[00:13:46] And it totally blew her off.
[00:13:49] And now I think totally differently.
[00:13:51] So you have to be ready to take in this information.
[00:13:54] And that's what's so interesting.
[00:13:56] It usually takes takes people, unfortunately, at least a few years
[00:13:59] of that desperate, desperate, like somebody helped me.
[00:14:03] And you do have to do all the tests to make sure something
[00:14:06] isn't going on like a cancer or something underlying.
[00:14:09] Of course, you have to be vigilant with your health care.
[00:14:12] But all that desperation, it just continually activates
[00:14:16] the fight or flight system over and over and over and all that researching.
[00:14:20] And we all start in those Facebook groups where you have to look like
[00:14:24] everyone you see people who've been sick for 20, 30 years.
[00:14:27] And, you know, it just triggers all those horrible, horrible feelings
[00:14:31] in your brain, and it just makes it worse.
[00:14:33] It's a it's a horrible loop that we get ourselves in.
[00:14:37] Yeah. So then what was it that actually helped you make some movement in the beginning?
[00:14:44] Yeah, that's a good question.
[00:14:46] Like I think having definitely having the support that I did
[00:14:49] where once I started to actually ask for help, I think support is a huge one.
[00:14:54] Everyone deserves some support, but we don't really know
[00:14:58] that we're allowed to ask for it or we don't feel we deserve it.
[00:15:02] I remember the mindset coach in CFS Health, Gemma Hanley,
[00:15:07] she said, you have to start to see yourself just as valuable, lying in bed
[00:15:12] as you are, whether you're out there volunteering and traveling and do that.
[00:15:16] You're just as valuable as a human being.
[00:15:19] And something about that was an aha moment for me.
[00:15:23] It really clicked something of like I could let go, you know, like I was like,
[00:15:29] OK, whether like I'm here lying in bed resting.
[00:15:33] I finally let myself actually rest because learning to really rest is sounds
[00:15:38] like something easy, but a lot of us are actually so in our heads.
[00:15:42] We're not really resting, right?
[00:15:44] And until we're in that rest state, our body can't get into a healing state.
[00:15:50] So this was multiple little aha moments along the way
[00:15:54] and different levels of acceptance, you know, not acceptance
[00:15:58] that you're going to be sick forever, but acceptance that this is going to take
[00:16:03] a while, but and there's lots of different things I can try.
[00:16:08] But to go in with that curious mindset instead of a desperate one
[00:16:12] and like I'm OK at a deeper level underneath all my symptoms,
[00:16:17] underneath what's going on on the surface, whatever I'm feeling.
[00:16:22] They're at a deep level.
[00:16:24] This true self, as we talk about in like IFS or parts work,
[00:16:28] I'm OK, I'm all right, like Dr.
[00:16:31] Kat from Primal Trust, that's what Primal Trust means.
[00:16:35] It's like you're trusting that at a primal level, you are OK, you are all right.
[00:16:40] And it is really interesting to see it that way
[00:16:43] when you've been so consumed by your illness for so long.
[00:16:48] That belief part, that knowing that trust I've seen not only within myself,
[00:16:54] definitely, but with everyone I've worked with that have really made some progress.
[00:17:00] It has to be there.
[00:17:01] We have to have some level of belief, trust, which goes along with hope, right?
[00:17:06] That this isn't going to be forever.
[00:17:08] This isn't going to be the rest of your life and that it is possible
[00:17:12] to heal and to grow and to change.
[00:17:14] Yes, it might take some time and effort and, you know, there's a journey to it.
[00:17:18] But knowing that your body is OK on some level to a core level,
[00:17:22] actually, really helps especially and we can get into this,
[00:17:26] especially with the brain training, right?
[00:17:28] And just in general, feeling safe in your body, knowing that your body is actually OK.
[00:17:33] It really is. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:17:35] These levels of your body, like learning about parts and parts work.
[00:17:40] I don't know if you talked about it on the podcast.
[00:17:42] Yeah, but that all parts have come on on top of us to protect us,
[00:17:47] like whether it's our anxious part or whether it's our people, please, are parts.
[00:17:52] That's a huge one for me.
[00:17:54] They're all they are trying to protect us,
[00:17:57] but we actually have to teach them that we're going to lead from a deeper place.
[00:18:02] We're not going to lead from them.
[00:18:04] We're going to lead from somewhere else deeper inside, which is our true self.
[00:18:08] So, yeah, if I highly recommend the book, No Bad Parts, if anybody is interested,
[00:18:13] it's it's truly that was very a very helpful book for me.
[00:18:17] Another one for me that got me on this path was Dr.
[00:18:21] Gabor Mate's book when the body says no.
[00:18:24] And that's where he teaches about the three personality types of people
[00:18:28] who tend to get these chronic illnesses.
[00:18:31] And I, of course, fit in all three.
[00:18:34] But for people who don't know the big three are achievers or perfectionists.
[00:18:40] This idea that I should be doing more, I should be doing more.
[00:18:43] You shouldn't see me in my 20s. I'm volunteering.
[00:18:46] I'm doing all these sports.
[00:18:48] I'm doing my master's. I've traveled to 35 countries.
[00:18:51] I've done all these things, but it's like a constant like, what's next?
[00:18:55] What should I be doing?
[00:18:56] Like, do I want to do public health masters or did I feel like I should do it?
[00:19:01] Because all my friends know masters, you know, it's really an interesting
[00:19:05] like self-analysis of what your motivation in life is.
[00:19:11] Another one is the people pleasers.
[00:19:13] That's another personality type that's so huge and comes
[00:19:17] as all these do from our childhood.
[00:19:20] That was a really, really big one for me.
[00:19:22] I just wanted everyone to like me.
[00:19:24] That was the most important thing of any any of the things is that I was liked.
[00:19:29] And then the third one, achiever personality type and wait for it.
[00:19:37] The bigger matter for a second.
[00:19:38] Wait, I'm having a mind blank.
[00:19:40] Achiever type, the people pleasers and the oh, I got it.
[00:19:45] And the third type is that people who repress emotions.
[00:19:49] So repressed emotions is something so common that people don't really
[00:19:55] understand what that means because they've just lived their lives in a certain way.
[00:19:59] And they're like, I feel emotions.
[00:20:01] Sure. But when you really analyze, like, when a stressful event happens,
[00:20:05] what's your reaction for me?
[00:20:08] Like, I remember when my cat died, when I was young, went to my room,
[00:20:12] closed the door, finished the whole third Lord of the Rings book,
[00:20:16] like literally, like, did not want to think about it, right?
[00:20:19] And there's so many examples of that in my life of, like, instead of feeling it,
[00:20:24] just going to something else, distracting yourself.
[00:20:27] Different people have different versions of ways that they're emotionally repressing.
[00:20:33] But yeah, those are the big three that once I learned that and I learned
[00:20:37] you can change those things and it impacts your immune system, your nervous system.
[00:20:43] It's really amazing what can be changed.
[00:20:46] Yeah. That when I learned about the different personality characteristics
[00:20:51] and I learned it in when I was doing pain reprocessing therapy, they talk there.
[00:20:56] I remember it was a light bulb moment for me.
[00:20:58] I had already done actually a lot of healing, but recognizing that was so huge
[00:21:04] because then I also felt seen in it too.
[00:21:06] You know, I felt like, oh, you know, this is me.
[00:21:10] I get it.
[00:21:11] This makes sense.
[00:21:11] And then I could actually see those and see how they've contributed to my life in
[00:21:16] general, but specifically, you know, to the trajectory of my illnesses.
[00:21:21] So yeah, absolutely.
[00:21:22] And it is a reason why I feel like I'm able to connect so deeply
[00:21:25] with so many of my clients because we have these common commonalities
[00:21:30] that when we figure out which ones we match on, like, it really does connect
[00:21:34] you deeply when you know that you're with people who are just like you.
[00:21:38] You know what, of course, there's a lot of differences as well,
[00:21:42] but there's also similarities.
[00:21:44] Yeah, it happens a lot in the group program that I run.
[00:21:47] You notice when people start talking, people connect really easily
[00:21:51] because one person's talking about something oftentimes it might be
[00:21:55] a high conscientiousness, like anxiety or being an overtiever.
[00:21:59] People pleasing, like you said, is a big one.
[00:22:01] And then all of a sudden light bulbs go off in other people's
[00:22:04] minds and they're like, oh, yeah, that's me, too.
[00:22:06] You know, and so that connection.
[00:22:09] So yeah. Yeah.
[00:22:11] And sometimes it helps just knowing that.
[00:22:13] But then there's, of course, all this deeper work we can do
[00:22:15] to help make changes in those areas, which impact our health.
[00:22:20] So yeah, it's really cool.
[00:22:22] Yeah, for sure. OK.
[00:22:24] So then you recognize, you know, we've heard how really
[00:22:27] how you're able to get all the depths of that.
[00:22:30] And then we talked earlier about nervous system training
[00:22:33] and brain training or nervous system regulation and brain training.
[00:22:36] And so can you talk about the differences between those two?
[00:22:40] Because I know people don't really understand that.
[00:22:42] Yeah, for sure.
[00:22:43] So so I started with straight up brain training.
[00:22:46] I did DN or S. I did like I went for a winter to Thailand,
[00:22:50] northern Thailand, and I just did it like crazy.
[00:22:53] And I did get better.
[00:22:55] I got from like a thousand steps to about eight thousand steps
[00:22:59] in a few months.
[00:23:00] And I was doing the exercise.
[00:23:01] It's a lot of repeating phrases to yourself, gratitude for yourself,
[00:23:07] acknowledging what's happening in this part of your brain
[00:23:10] that's overactive called the limbic system,
[00:23:12] thinking it for trying to protect you and then saying,
[00:23:16] instead, what we're going to do is I'm going to feel this.
[00:23:20] I want to feel confident.
[00:23:21] I want to feel calm.
[00:23:22] I want to, you know, you re redesign what you want to feel
[00:23:27] and then going into a visualization about that.
[00:23:29] So seeing yourself there either in the past or the future or both.
[00:23:35] Sometimes the past can be a little triggering.
[00:23:37] So I tend to get people to start with the future.
[00:23:40] But yeah, it's really, really powerful because the brain
[00:23:43] when you're visualizing, you don't really know the difference.
[00:23:46] The brain doesn't know the difference between a visualization and reality.
[00:23:50] So in sending the chemicals that it feels like it's in the moment for
[00:23:54] and a beautiful thing about neuroplasticity is that if you do that
[00:23:58] enough, it starts to be like systematic and it just happens naturally,
[00:24:04] which is what neuroplasticity is.
[00:24:06] It's like the brain picking up on cues and using specific pathways.
[00:24:11] And the more you use those pathways, it'll stop using the negative pathways
[00:24:15] and start using the positive.
[00:24:17] You could, of course, go the other way if you want.
[00:24:19] But hopefully we're going towards using more positive pathways
[00:24:24] and releasing more positive hormones.
[00:24:26] As you talk about in your course, the hormones that are positive.
[00:24:30] So that's brain retraining.
[00:24:31] And that's on me to a point.
[00:24:34] But I got back and I got back from Thailand.
[00:24:38] I was all jazzed.
[00:24:39] I'm going to be better.
[00:24:40] And then I had a huge crash.
[00:24:42] Like I literally felt the energy just drain out of my body.
[00:24:46] And I was back to out of breath, going to the bathroom.
[00:24:50] And off that depression when when you feel like you were so close
[00:24:55] and you just like that program teaches you that in six months I will be doing this.
[00:25:00] You know, it's like so intense with the timeline that it's very depressing.
[00:25:05] So it took me a few years to get back to brain retraining.
[00:25:09] But in that time, I learned that brain retraining can be a little bit of a band aid.
[00:25:15] It's useful, but it doesn't get to the root of what was causing those
[00:25:21] thoughts in the first place.
[00:25:22] And it doesn't have any association with what's happening in your body.
[00:25:27] And our bodies are actually a lot more to do with this than our brains in a lot of the ways
[00:25:32] because we feel emotions in our bodies.
[00:25:36] And so it's really important to distinguish that brain retraining is great
[00:25:40] when you catch yourself having negative thoughts like, oh, I'm never going to get
[00:25:44] better and stuff that you can catch that and switch.
[00:25:47] You can switch. I call it pivot.
[00:25:50] You can pivot to a new stream of thought and you can do a little exercise
[00:25:55] to get your brain working in a certain way, quickly become a more positive person.
[00:26:01] But we need to do the emotional processing work and learn how to process
[00:26:05] our emotions in our body and be present with our bodies or else
[00:26:10] it'll eventually will just revert back to what we were doing before
[00:26:14] because it's not really a deep level of change.
[00:26:17] So one like brain retraining we call top down and somatic processing is bottom up.
[00:26:24] So somatic processing is like starts as simple as body scanning.
[00:26:29] Gosh, I have body scan so much.
[00:26:33] I think you call it something else.
[00:26:34] It's it's it's essentially just being with each part of your body.
[00:26:39] Yeah. Tracking. They also call it right.
[00:26:42] Somatic tracking. Yeah.
[00:26:44] Yeah. So lots of that to just be like very aware of your body.
[00:26:49] And I'm not talking about awareness of your symptoms, but just your body parts itself.
[00:26:53] Being OK with the pain, being OK with the symptoms that are happening,
[00:26:57] the inflammation, whatever it is.
[00:27:00] But on a deeper level, like if you just think about your hands,
[00:27:04] we have so many nerve endings in our hands.
[00:27:07] I forget the number.
[00:27:08] Maybe it's like 10,000 and you can feel that tingling right in your hands.
[00:27:13] And it's really beautiful how intensely your hands can send you the signal
[00:27:18] that they're there if you think about them.
[00:27:20] Right. And our feet are the same.
[00:27:23] Like you can feel your feet on the ground and just that change of attention
[00:27:27] from your rapid thoughts to look, I'm feeling my feet on the ground.
[00:27:33] It's like a totally different way of being in your body.
[00:27:37] And it can completely realign the way that your nervous system
[00:27:43] is working because your nervous system is taking cues from the brain.
[00:27:47] But if you try, you tell it, actually, we're going to stay calm in the brain.
[00:27:51] We're going to go into the body.
[00:27:53] Then it stopped sending that fight or flight signal,
[00:27:56] which keeps us in this negativity loop.
[00:27:58] So yeah, so I think it explains maybe the difference
[00:28:01] between brain or training and somatic body work.
[00:28:05] Any other questions on that?
[00:28:06] If I didn't make it clear, I think that's helpful,
[00:28:09] and especially how they go together because they do.
[00:28:11] Right. I mean, our brain connects to our body, your body connects to our brain
[00:28:14] and there's signals going back and forth all the time.
[00:28:17] So I mean, if people are listening, they know this.
[00:28:20] I mean, if you listen to this podcast, you totally know that I'm about wealth.
[00:28:23] Brain-body connection is so huge, right?
[00:28:26] So then can you speak to where the nervous system fits into that
[00:28:30] or at least just name it right for people and how that all works together?
[00:28:35] Yeah. So your nervous system is really incredible.
[00:28:38] That reminded me what you just said that I did.
[00:28:40] I could make a bit more of a distinguished distinction
[00:28:44] between somatics in general of like getting into your body
[00:28:49] and emotional processing using somatics,
[00:28:52] because those are two a little difference, right?
[00:28:55] Like somatics can involve the nervous system
[00:28:58] through things you might have heard of vegas nerve exercises.
[00:29:01] So the nervous system, one part of the nervous system is the vegas nerve,
[00:29:05] which connects to so many of our organs, so many of our systems in our bodies.
[00:29:10] I won't name them all, but if you look at a picture of the vegas nerve,
[00:29:13] there's certain activities we can do to help strengthen that nerve
[00:29:18] and make it more resilient, essentially.
[00:29:21] When our nervous system is in fight or flight, it's it's not using its strength.
[00:29:25] I think you probably can explain it better, but it it's not really being stabilized.
[00:29:31] But by doing certain activities, it's so amazing over time.
[00:29:34] And it can take months of doing these activities before you really feel the difference.
[00:29:39] But things like there's certain eye exercises where you hold your eyes
[00:29:43] certain ways, the eyes are very connected to the vegas nerve.
[00:29:47] And by stretching your eyes out, it instantly sends that message
[00:29:52] to go into rest and digest in your nervous system,
[00:29:56] because our nervous system has fight or flight, breeze.
[00:30:00] Well, I guess at the lowest ring, freeze, then fight or flight, rest and digest.
[00:30:06] And then in there is also fawn, which is a little separately.
[00:30:09] We talked about it in a post today, but yeah, what we're trying to do
[00:30:13] is get our body up into into rest and digest as much as possible.
[00:30:19] So by doing certain physical activities, whether it's humming,
[00:30:23] cold water therapy is a good one.
[00:30:26] I love an exercise called octopus hands, where you're literally
[00:30:29] just moving your hands like an octopus, so slowly and controlled
[00:30:33] and thinking about the muscles in your hand.
[00:30:35] Like just as I do that, I can feel my tailbone release, because it's
[00:30:39] impossible to be in fight or flight when you're consciously moving slowly
[00:30:45] and having awareness of what's going on in your body.
[00:30:49] So little exercises and people probably see them on Instagram and stuff
[00:30:53] and they think about doing them more.
[00:30:55] They do them for a few minutes and then they forget about them.
[00:30:59] But if you pick a few and do them consistently, it probably took
[00:31:03] at least six months for me to really feel the difference with them.
[00:31:06] So consistency is key.
[00:31:09] So that's the physical somatics of changing your nervous system
[00:31:13] using specific actions.
[00:31:16] And then there's the emotional processing somatics, which is
[00:31:20] like learning to feel your emotions in your body, where you feel them.
[00:31:26] And when you find where you're feeling that emotion, often it's
[00:31:30] in your chest or your stomach, letting yourself sit with them
[00:31:33] without fear until it passes.
[00:31:36] Because something cool about emotions is that if you do give it
[00:31:40] the space, it'll often pass, which is what it needs to do instead
[00:31:45] of being pushed aside.
[00:31:47] Yeah.
[00:31:47] So it's really interesting to separate those two kinds of somatics
[00:31:51] for people because that can be a very confusing area for people
[00:31:56] to understand like what is somatics?
[00:31:59] Yeah, because there's a lot of pieces to this.
[00:32:01] Everything that you just said makes so much sense.
[00:32:02] That's really helpful.
[00:32:03] So thank you.
[00:32:05] And I like the distinction between the different types of somatics.
[00:32:07] Right.
[00:32:08] So if we're talking about nervous system, just true nervous
[00:32:12] system in a general sense, so many pieces make up a regulated
[00:32:17] nervous system because we are complex even being that's not
[00:32:22] just going to be one thing.
[00:32:22] Like you said, it's not just brain training or it's not just
[00:32:25] somatics, it really is encompass a lot of things to heal.
[00:32:30] And I'm glad you mentioned that consistency, especially with
[00:32:33] those little exercise that sometimes people feel a little
[00:32:36] weird doing at first.
[00:32:37] I know I have plenty of people say, I feel silly, you know,
[00:32:40] doing these things and it might feel like that at first for
[00:32:44] sure.
[00:32:45] But if you think about it this way, your nervous system has
[00:32:48] not been your mind, your body has not been used to
[00:32:52] probably slowing down and being present and being conscious.
[00:32:55] So you're doing something completely different than your
[00:32:58] norm.
[00:32:58] So yeah, it's going to be weird.
[00:33:00] It's going to feel off or not right or whatever you want to
[00:33:04] use.
[00:33:05] So what you almost just described is that slowing down
[00:33:09] and being conscious and aware because when we're present,
[00:33:12] we're not future or past or fight or flight or freeze or
[00:33:16] shut down, whatever it is.
[00:33:17] So that was a really great explanation.
[00:33:19] So thank you.
[00:33:20] Thanks.
[00:33:21] Yeah, it's a really interesting area.
[00:33:23] And it does like I talked to Asha Gupta, the creator of the
[00:33:27] Gupta program on my podcast, post viral podcast, and he said
[00:33:33] he thought of like, like nervous system work and
[00:33:36] polyvagal exercises and stuff a little bit like a red
[00:33:39] herring, because he's like, it really is all sourced in
[00:33:43] limbic system in the brain.
[00:33:45] And I thought about that a lot because I was like, OK, so
[00:33:49] if it's all in your brain, I guess that makes sense why
[00:33:52] he's like specializes like more highly in brain retraining,
[00:33:57] but he has over the years started to add these other
[00:33:59] exercises as well, because even though the brain is kind of
[00:34:03] controlling the nervous system in terms of what's being put
[00:34:08] into it, like the nervous system can send signals to the
[00:34:12] brain as well.
[00:34:13] So if we do these exercises, if we get our body, we can
[00:34:16] actually change it into fight or flight instead of the
[00:34:19] fight or flight controlling our nervous system, if that makes
[00:34:22] sense. So yeah, I thought about it a lot and like what's
[00:34:26] controlling what. But in the end, it's just that all of
[00:34:30] these exercises like finding a few that work for you in
[00:34:34] these all these areas can be hugely beneficial and adding
[00:34:38] them on, of course, when it's right for you when
[00:34:40] you're ready to get to that stage.
[00:34:43] Yeah. So that makes me think of I was just into
[00:34:47] training this weekend and felt brain spotting. And the
[00:34:51] idea is to use your eyes like you just mentioned, I your
[00:34:55] eye gaze actually has a lot to do with connection to your
[00:34:58] biggest nerve and actually to our midbrain and amygdala.
[00:35:02] And so our midbrain is where a lot of
[00:35:05] predestinations, trauma, dysregulation, if you will,
[00:35:09] is stored. And so the idea is to have a certain eye
[00:35:12] gaze where you you access that midbrain and then
[00:35:15] from that midbrain place, your mind and your body
[00:35:19] starts processing what needs to process. You have an
[00:35:21] essential thing you're going to work on. But it just
[00:35:25] made me think of that. Basically, we're accessing
[00:35:27] the brain. And then the whole point throughout the
[00:35:29] session of brain spotting is noticing your body. You
[00:35:32] always come back to, okay, what are you noticing?
[00:35:35] What are you noticing? What's going on in your body?
[00:35:37] You know, you might have some thoughts and things
[00:35:39] you're processing, but we're always guiding you
[00:35:42] back to the body because of that connection. So
[00:35:45] there's so many things that point to that connection.
[00:35:48] Right? And practices, therapies, tools, but it just
[00:35:51] made me think of that because it's just reinforcing
[00:35:53] that, yes, it is, it is, we are targeting the brain
[00:35:56] because that's where some of these illnesses or
[00:36:00] dysregulations are are are caught. But sometimes
[00:36:05] the way to relieve them is through the body.
[00:36:07] Yeah, right. So anyway, we said it multiple times,
[00:36:10] or at least I have, but both are important.
[00:36:12] Yeah, that's a good example. Yeah, that's a really
[00:36:15] good example for sure. Yeah, and then the, yeah,
[00:36:19] processing emotions, using those kinds of
[00:36:21] techniques or ones where you go in and feel, you
[00:36:24] know, what you're feeling and just let yourself
[00:36:27] be with it. Yeah, it's all the same, really.
[00:36:30] It's all just a deeper level of getting to
[00:36:32] these areas.
[00:36:33] Yeah, definitely. So then as you've actually
[00:36:37] made some more progress in your healing, have
[00:36:40] you noticed that there are certain things you
[00:36:42] always go back to or certain things that are in
[00:36:44] your toolbox that are really important to you as
[00:36:47] you've made so much progress throughout your
[00:36:50] journey? Yeah, for sure. So like one thing I
[00:36:53] would say is that I couldn't even touch
[00:36:56] brain retraining for like a good two years
[00:36:58] after I had that huge crash, like I would
[00:37:01] kind of do it half acidly, like but like to
[00:37:05] really get into it. I think something had
[00:37:07] been, it felt like it had failed me, you
[00:37:10] know, or like something it scared me almost
[00:37:14] because if I went there again and I let myself
[00:37:17] believe, and then what if that happens
[00:37:19] again, you know, so it took a few years for
[00:37:22] me to be able to incorporate brain retraining
[00:37:24] again in a way that felt useful along with
[00:37:28] these other tools I had been learning about.
[00:37:31] And what pushed me there? What is that? I was
[00:37:33] getting better. It's getting better. I was
[00:37:35] up to about almost an hour of walking without
[00:37:37] crashing or anything. And I decided to make
[00:37:40] the leap and to get a dog because I've
[00:37:42] always wanted a dog. And my I'm obsessed
[00:37:45] with animals. People who listen to my
[00:37:47] podcast would know because all season one is
[00:37:50] like themed around animals. And she ended
[00:37:53] up having a lot more energy than I had
[00:37:55] expected. And I was like, wow, if I want to
[00:37:59] care for this dog properly, I'm going to
[00:38:00] have to like really make some progress
[00:38:03] quick. And I didn't do it with like a
[00:38:05] fear. I did it with like an excitement.
[00:38:08] And I was like, I'm going to use brain
[00:38:10] retraining as a tool before I go on walks.
[00:38:14] And while I'm walking her and to really
[00:38:17] like take away any fear, and I was able
[00:38:20] to make more progress faster. So I was
[00:38:23] thinking about that, like what that meant.
[00:38:25] And it's like having a positive
[00:38:28] motivator versus a motivator that is
[00:38:32] entrenched in some kind of stress, you
[00:38:35] know, if you're trying to get back to
[00:38:37] work, right? And you're like, I have to
[00:38:40] be back to work at this point in time.
[00:38:41] And it's not like a positive motivator.
[00:38:44] It's like a fearful motivator. So you
[00:38:49] got to try and like, I don't know, for
[00:38:51] me, having like a positive motivator to
[00:38:54] push me forward was really big in my
[00:38:57] progress and got me back using brain
[00:38:59] retraining in a way that didn't feel
[00:39:02] like I wasn't putting all my eggs in one
[00:39:04] basket, but I was using it as one tool.
[00:39:08] So that's when I got back into brain
[00:39:09] retraining. Things that I still keep up
[00:39:13] and have kept up. I mean, that Vegas
[00:39:15] nerve exercise where you're holding
[00:39:16] your eyes, they call it like, what do
[00:39:19] you call it? There's a few names for
[00:39:20] it. I move man for Vegas nerve.
[00:39:23] I don't actually know if I have a
[00:39:25] for sure name, but there is a guy
[00:39:28] who invented it. I forget it, but I
[00:39:30] or I yoga is another name for it.
[00:39:32] But hold your eyes all the way as
[00:39:35] far as you can, like the left for 30
[00:39:37] seconds. And then as far as you can
[00:39:39] to the right for 30 seconds. And
[00:39:41] that's been a game changer for me.
[00:39:43] I use it when I'm starting to feel
[00:39:45] a little foggy. I use it in the
[00:39:47] morning when I'm feeling extra tired.
[00:39:50] I use it like I couldn't drive
[00:39:53] for the longest time, like getting
[00:39:54] back into driving because for me,
[00:39:57] movement stimulation was a lot for
[00:39:59] my eyes. I couldn't even look at
[00:40:01] computers. I couldn't read and that
[00:40:04] exercise on its own has been
[00:40:06] instrumental and I still use it all
[00:40:08] the time. Like I mentioned, body
[00:40:10] scanning, I still am body scanning
[00:40:13] all the time, at least before bed
[00:40:16] and when I wake up to just like
[00:40:17] get into my body. And when I can
[00:40:20] feel that I'm in flight or flight
[00:40:21] like I can feel I'm activated
[00:40:23] coming into my body and doing some
[00:40:25] body scanning is a really, really
[00:40:28] useful activity for me. I made a
[00:40:30] little song up for myself. It
[00:40:33] helps me like get into it. So it's
[00:40:35] like that, you know, the skeleton
[00:40:37] song where it's like toe bones
[00:40:38] connect to the foot bone, but
[00:40:41] bones connect to do that. And so I
[00:40:43] just do that with all my body
[00:40:44] parts when I'm lying there. And
[00:40:47] it just relaxes everything. I read
[00:40:49] once that when you're body scanning
[00:40:51] it's actually just as restful as
[00:40:53] sleep. That's something that really
[00:40:55] helps a lot of people to hear
[00:40:56] because when they wake up in the
[00:40:58] middle of the night, they're like,
[00:40:59] Oh, no, what if I don't get back to
[00:41:01] sleep? I have to work tomorrow.
[00:41:02] Instead, if you just go into body
[00:41:04] scanning and just feel that sense
[00:41:08] of relief that at least this is
[00:41:09] just as good as sleep, you'll
[00:41:11] probably fall back to sleep
[00:41:12] because you're taken off the
[00:41:13] pressure, right? And then I
[00:41:17] have that are doing PRT pain
[00:41:19] reprocessing therapy was also
[00:41:21] really helpful because it was
[00:41:22] like things I was doing, but I
[00:41:24] had some new ways of explaining
[00:41:27] it. So for me, for people and
[00:41:29] for myself also, it's been really
[00:41:31] helpful to realize that the big
[00:41:33] three that we're trying to change
[00:41:35] in like brain or training is like
[00:41:37] worry, pressure and self
[00:41:40] criticism, like putting those at
[00:41:42] the top of like everything that
[00:41:44] fits in the categories of worry,
[00:41:46] pressure or self kept. And then
[00:41:48] you think about how often your
[00:41:50] world is consumed by one of
[00:41:52] those three things. It's like
[00:41:54] all of the time. And I started to
[00:41:56] realize like even, you know,
[00:41:58] every time I'm eating, or if
[00:41:59] it's something that I feel like
[00:42:00] you know, I shouldn't be
[00:42:01] eating. It's like self
[00:42:02] criticism comes up so fast. And
[00:42:05] all these little subconscious
[00:42:07] triggers to your nervous
[00:42:08] system to put you in fight or
[00:42:09] flight. You don't even
[00:42:11] realize the effect they're
[00:42:13] having at a subconscious
[00:42:14] level. So starting to orient
[00:42:17] yourself around pivoting away
[00:42:20] from worry and self
[00:42:22] pressure and pressure and
[00:42:24] self criticism, I really have
[00:42:26] been really helpful for me as
[00:42:27] well, to keep that up. There's
[00:42:30] probably a million little
[00:42:31] things I still do, but sure.
[00:42:33] Yeah. Well, so early on, you
[00:42:36] talked about passion, right?
[00:42:37] Your passion helping you
[00:42:39] through and then you mentioned
[00:42:40] your dog and having that
[00:42:41] positive motivator. And I
[00:42:44] think the dog was a good
[00:42:45] example of passion. But can
[00:42:47] you explain a little bit more
[00:42:48] about how does actually having
[00:42:50] a passion truly help our
[00:42:51] bodies heal?
[00:42:53] Yeah, that's a good question. I
[00:42:55] yeah, I really think it was
[00:42:56] big for me. And you know,
[00:42:58] another example is starting
[00:42:59] my podcast post viral with
[00:43:01] my friend Stu. Oh, I was
[00:43:03] still quite sick when we
[00:43:04] started that podcast. Like
[00:43:06] that was maybe six months
[00:43:07] after I had come back from
[00:43:09] the island. So maybe leaving
[00:43:12] the house for a few minutes
[00:43:14] at a time max, probably four
[00:43:16] hours out of bed a day,
[00:43:18] max, like, I was still quite
[00:43:21] disabled when I started that
[00:43:22] podcast. But it gave me like
[00:43:26] a purpose. It gave me a passion
[00:43:27] we incorporated, you know, my
[00:43:30] animal facts and his poems
[00:43:32] with our descriptions of these
[00:43:34] areas of healing that we were
[00:43:35] learning about. And it really
[00:43:38] pushed me towards understanding
[00:43:39] what I could be doing to help
[00:43:41] the world in a way that
[00:43:42] felt right for me. And my
[00:43:46] idea of what it's doing for
[00:43:47] the nervous system is that it's
[00:43:49] just really taking your
[00:43:51] attention away from those
[00:43:52] things we just talked about the
[00:43:54] worry, the self criticism, the
[00:43:56] pressure, because if you're at
[00:43:57] a job that you don't really
[00:43:59] love, that you don't like,
[00:44:01] even if you're just OK with
[00:44:02] it, your brain's constantly
[00:44:04] going like, should I be doing
[00:44:06] this? Should I be doing
[00:44:07] something else? What am I
[00:44:08] doing? Like, who am I
[00:44:09] helping? There was a lot of
[00:44:10] who was at who am I
[00:44:11] helping in my story? And
[00:44:13] like, all of those are
[00:44:15] telling the nervous system
[00:44:16] that you're not safe. It's a
[00:44:18] signal of it's really all
[00:44:20] about manifesting safety,
[00:44:21] right? And if you don't feel
[00:44:24] safe, if your parts don't feel
[00:44:25] safe, it's going to keep
[00:44:27] activating the nervous
[00:44:28] system. So when you're doing
[00:44:30] something you love, you enjoy
[00:44:33] your nervous system is able
[00:44:35] to just chill out. And I
[00:44:38] think that's the best way to
[00:44:39] conceptualize it. I learned
[00:44:41] a lot recently, I was telling
[00:44:42] you about that Huberman Lab
[00:44:44] podcast about changing the
[00:44:47] energy in the brain from the
[00:44:49] limbic system to the
[00:44:50] prefrontal cortex. When we're
[00:44:52] able to get more into like
[00:44:54] analytical state that's
[00:44:55] positive, we're able to like
[00:44:57] process ideas in a more
[00:45:00] advanced way. Like if we're
[00:45:02] doing something we hate, we
[00:45:03] kind of like, we do what we
[00:45:05] have to do, right? And then
[00:45:08] we move on. Whereas if
[00:45:10] you're doing something you
[00:45:10] love, your brain is excited.
[00:45:12] So it's going to stay more
[00:45:14] prefrontal cortex instead of
[00:45:15] going limbic. So that's kind
[00:45:17] of the brain science way of
[00:45:19] explaining it in a very
[00:45:20] simplistic way.
[00:45:23] Yeah, it was, yes, there you
[00:45:25] go.
[00:45:26] And I'm just gonna say that's
[00:45:27] really helpful because you
[00:45:28] know, we can say, okay, yes,
[00:45:29] do more things of what you
[00:45:30] enjoy, what you love and
[00:45:32] fulfills you. I talk about
[00:45:33] that a lot too. We really
[00:45:35] need to orient and move
[00:45:37] towards what truly feels
[00:45:38] good in our life and our
[00:45:40] body. And people, you know,
[00:45:42] you can consciously
[00:45:42] understand, okay, of course
[00:45:43] that's going to be good for
[00:45:44] me. But right, really, I
[00:45:46] mean, it has a huge impact
[00:45:48] right thing on your brain
[00:45:50] and your body and your
[00:45:51] healing. So yeah, yeah. And
[00:45:53] when when Hubertman was
[00:45:55] explaining that he was
[00:45:55] talking about a journaling
[00:45:56] technique, and it was just
[00:45:58] so helpful for me because for
[00:45:59] me, that that was another
[00:46:01] thing that really helps me
[00:46:02] was journal speak. So this
[00:46:04] journaling technique where you
[00:46:07] literally have to be as mean
[00:46:09] as possible, like get out
[00:46:11] all your emotions to the
[00:46:13] deepest level possible about
[00:46:16] a variety of topics. And
[00:46:18] each day you pick one topic
[00:46:20] and you do like 20 minutes
[00:46:21] stream of consciousness about
[00:46:23] that. And you got to let out
[00:46:24] all the F words like you
[00:46:28] can imagine as a people
[00:46:29] pleaser, it's not how I talk
[00:46:30] to people or think. And it
[00:46:33] really did something. I did
[00:46:35] this a month, about a
[00:46:36] month. And I do think it
[00:46:38] was that time when the
[00:46:39] fatigue really lifted. When I
[00:46:41] really look back, that's when
[00:46:43] it lifted. And I couldn't
[00:46:45] really understand until I
[00:46:47] heard that Hubertman lab
[00:46:48] podcast of why that could
[00:46:50] be how could a journaling
[00:46:52] like relieve your physical
[00:46:54] fatigue. And I mean, there's
[00:46:56] incredible stats of what
[00:46:57] it's done for chronic pain
[00:46:59] that comes its source from
[00:47:00] Dr. Sarno's work on chronic
[00:47:02] pain patients. But I didn't
[00:47:05] really understand why until
[00:47:06] Hubertman talked about what
[00:47:07] was happening in the brain
[00:47:09] when you reprocess
[00:47:11] emotional events that at the
[00:47:13] time you probably just pushed
[00:47:15] aside really quickly. And that
[00:47:17] took the energy and went
[00:47:19] straight to the limbic system.
[00:47:21] And now you're allowing the
[00:47:22] energy to come back to
[00:47:23] prefrontal cortex by, you
[00:47:26] know, journaling it out all
[00:47:27] these different ways. Often
[00:47:29] things come back to the same
[00:47:30] themes. And your brain
[00:47:32] starts to really understand
[00:47:34] it actually changes where
[00:47:35] your energy is going. So yeah,
[00:47:38] it was really helpful for me.
[00:47:40] Yeah, I've also heard it
[00:47:41] described and I'll link all of
[00:47:43] this below too in the show
[00:47:44] notes that, you know, when
[00:47:46] you're actually getting all of
[00:47:47] that out on the page,
[00:47:48] especially like rage that
[00:47:50] you're not ever allowing
[00:47:51] yourself to feel or like you
[00:47:53] said, all those words that
[00:47:55] you don't ever talk to
[00:47:56] people like, but more
[00:47:58] often than not, we feel them
[00:48:00] and we talk about them or
[00:48:02] we talk to ourselves in that
[00:48:04] way, even if we're not
[00:48:05] conscious of it. And when
[00:48:07] we don't allow ourselves to
[00:48:08] feel those or say them or
[00:48:09] think them, then that's
[00:48:11] what's getting repressed,
[00:48:13] right? That's what's getting
[00:48:13] pushed down, which then our
[00:48:16] bodies are protecting us
[00:48:17] against them and having all
[00:48:18] these other symptoms come
[00:48:19] about. So we're allowed to
[00:48:22] have it out. The body
[00:48:24] doesn't need to protect us
[00:48:25] from them. Right. Yeah. A
[00:48:27] good way of explaining it
[00:48:28] too. Yeah. And at an even
[00:48:30] deeper level, Gabor Matze
[00:48:31] talks about in his new
[00:48:33] book, how it ends up
[00:48:34] being like chromosomal
[00:48:35] changes when they looked at
[00:48:37] people who have more trauma,
[00:48:40] the telomeres, which are
[00:48:41] like the ends of the
[00:48:42] chromosomes are shorter in
[00:48:44] people with higher level
[00:48:46] the levels of trauma. And
[00:48:48] they also correlate to
[00:48:49] higher levels of chronic
[00:48:50] illness. So it is really
[00:48:52] interesting when you get
[00:48:53] to a genetic level as well
[00:48:54] in these epigenetic
[00:48:55] changes. Yeah. So which is
[00:48:57] a whole other, you know,
[00:48:58] intergenerational trauma. I
[00:49:00] mean, it is truly
[00:49:02] scientifically researched
[00:49:03] and shown the telomeres
[00:49:05] on your DNA changes. So
[00:49:06] intergenerational trauma has
[00:49:08] actually passed down. Yeah,
[00:49:09] it's real. Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:49:12] Okay. So someone listening
[00:49:15] to this who's just starting
[00:49:16] out learning about the root
[00:49:18] cause of their illness and
[00:49:19] just getting into this
[00:49:20] world. What would you tell
[00:49:21] them? Well, you've come to
[00:49:23] the right place. I usually
[00:49:25] tell them that, you know,
[00:49:27] there's only benefit that can
[00:49:29] come from mind body work.
[00:49:30] That's the coolest thing
[00:49:31] about it is like there are
[00:49:33] some paths you can go down
[00:49:35] that can really harm you.
[00:49:36] And this can only be
[00:49:37] helpful, right? So to what
[00:49:40] level it's going to help you,
[00:49:41] different degrees, of course,
[00:49:43] depending on what your issue
[00:49:44] is, but it can be
[00:49:46] life changing. And the more
[00:49:48] we know what learn about
[00:49:49] ourselves, like, I just can't
[00:49:51] I'm just like a totally
[00:49:52] different person than I was
[00:49:54] before I was sick. I think
[00:49:56] differently. Like I'm so
[00:49:58] much more positive and
[00:49:59] optimistic about the world.
[00:50:01] I just like am so grateful
[00:50:04] all the time. Like all these
[00:50:05] things that you're like,
[00:50:07] yeah, sure, I could be a
[00:50:08] person like that. It's really
[00:50:10] amazing how the brain can
[00:50:12] change, right? And how we can
[00:50:14] see the world differently. And
[00:50:16] I just think that, yeah,
[00:50:18] don't don't ever give up
[00:50:19] because there's just so many
[00:50:22] things you can try. Like, of
[00:50:25] course, there's there's other
[00:50:26] things I can tell you
[00:50:27] about in the medical world,
[00:50:28] you can try as well, or in
[00:50:30] the other alternative ways you
[00:50:32] can try. But like, there's
[00:50:33] just so many options, you
[00:50:35] know, like, it's it just, I'm
[00:50:37] just so glad I never gave
[00:50:39] up. So just that's the
[00:50:40] biggest thing I want to say to
[00:50:42] people is keep that glimmer of
[00:50:44] hope as small as it may be at
[00:50:46] some time. Keep it alive
[00:50:48] because there's absolutely
[00:50:50] opportunities for change. It's
[00:50:52] like a puzzle, right? You got
[00:50:53] to just find the right puzzle
[00:50:54] pieces to come together to
[00:50:57] create healing in your body.
[00:50:59] Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.
[00:51:01] That's really helpful. And
[00:51:03] is there anything else around
[00:51:04] what we've talked about that
[00:51:05] you feel is important for
[00:51:07] people to hear? No, I think
[00:51:09] that if they're already here,
[00:51:11] like they're probably already
[00:51:12] on the right path. I know it
[00:51:14] can be really frustrating,
[00:51:15] like when you sometimes it can
[00:51:17] be nice to hear people who
[00:51:18] feel but then it can also be
[00:51:20] frustrating because you're
[00:51:21] like, why am I not healing?
[00:51:22] But really make sure that
[00:51:24] you're tracking your wins and
[00:51:27] be aware of like the
[00:51:28] things that are going well.
[00:51:30] And, you know, it takes
[00:51:32] time, right? Even when I was
[00:51:33] just could walk an hour, but
[00:51:35] I still had all these
[00:51:36] impediments, my brain would
[00:51:38] still go into like, is there
[00:51:39] something else I should be
[00:51:40] doing? You know, but by
[00:51:42] doing that, you're actually
[00:51:43] just putting your brain back
[00:51:45] into fight or flight. So you
[00:51:46] got to have to have a little
[00:51:47] bit of trust in the process
[00:51:49] as well, that, you know,
[00:51:51] you're on the right track
[00:51:52] when your gut feels like
[00:51:53] you're doing the right
[00:51:54] things. And yeah, keep a
[00:51:56] curious mindset. That's
[00:51:58] what I would say.
[00:51:59] That's an important one.
[00:52:02] Curious, for sure, rather
[00:52:04] than the worry, the self
[00:52:05] criticism, the doubt, the
[00:52:07] fear. Yeah.
[00:52:09] Yeah, what could be possible?
[00:52:11] Who knows, right? This world
[00:52:12] is crazy.
[00:52:13] I want to let people know
[00:52:14] too that I don't think I
[00:52:16] mentioned this so far.
[00:52:17] Lindsay's come into the
[00:52:19] program that I have, my
[00:52:20] body healing method, and it's
[00:52:22] creating some really awesome
[00:52:23] videos for us and has helped
[00:52:24] me immensely, really break
[00:52:27] down all these areas we've
[00:52:28] talked about to help us to
[00:52:30] help create areas and
[00:52:32] healing for people, a program
[00:52:33] that's, I think, going to be
[00:52:34] really amazing. So keep
[00:52:36] listening and tune in because
[00:52:38] she'll be here more. And then
[00:52:40] I always like to ask for
[00:52:42] anyone on the podcast, what
[00:52:44] are you loving right now
[00:52:45] and your wellness journey? And
[00:52:46] it can literally be anything
[00:52:47] from like a new recipe to a
[00:52:50] new like insight you've had.
[00:52:53] We're loving right now.
[00:52:56] Well, I mean, I'm loving
[00:52:59] because now I have some one
[00:53:01] on one clients in Vancouver
[00:53:02] that I'm seeing in person.
[00:53:04] So I'm loving the personal
[00:53:06] interaction with people.
[00:53:07] And we didn't really talk
[00:53:08] about the like power of
[00:53:10] connection. But humans are
[00:53:14] creatures that belong with
[00:53:16] other people. Like we're not
[00:53:17] meant to be isolated. We
[00:53:19] talked a bit about how I
[00:53:20] isolated myself. But being
[00:53:22] able to be with my clients
[00:53:23] in person and give them
[00:53:26] some hope in person has been
[00:53:28] is really what I'm loving
[00:53:29] right now. It really feels
[00:53:31] like such a deeper thing as
[00:53:32] much as zoom is great because
[00:53:34] you could connect with people
[00:53:35] all over the world. It's just
[00:53:37] like so much more powerful one
[00:53:39] on one in person. So I'm
[00:53:41] loving that and I encourage
[00:53:42] people to yeah, connect to
[00:53:43] those they love as well. In
[00:53:46] any way they can.
[00:53:47] I love that I didn't know
[00:53:48] you were doing that again.
[00:53:50] Yes, definitely so, so
[00:53:52] important because this journey
[00:53:53] can feel so isolating and feel
[00:53:56] especially when you're in the
[00:53:58] middle of it and you don't know
[00:53:59] anyone else around you
[00:54:00] experiencing the symptoms
[00:54:01] you're experiencing the illnesses.
[00:54:03] It feels just like I mean, I
[00:54:06] just remember being so isolated
[00:54:07] and feeling like no one
[00:54:08] understood me. No one
[00:54:09] understood what was going on.
[00:54:12] No, if someone had come to
[00:54:13] me who'd like gotten better
[00:54:15] and like been beside me in
[00:54:16] my bed and been like you're
[00:54:18] going to get there. Like it
[00:54:19] just it takes a lot of time
[00:54:20] and certain kinds of practices
[00:54:22] would have been so life
[00:54:24] changing. Yeah, it's crazy.
[00:54:27] I love that. I love that you
[00:54:28] doing that connection then.
[00:54:29] Well, thank you so much,
[00:54:30] Lindsay. I think this is a really
[00:54:31] powerful episode and I'm
[00:54:33] really excited to have it on
[00:54:34] here. So I appreciate it.
[00:54:36] Very thank you for having me
[00:54:38] looking forward to working with
[00:54:39] you more.
[00:54:41] If this podcast means something
[00:54:43] to you, it would mean so
[00:54:44] much to me if you could do
[00:54:45] these couple things.
[00:54:46] One, go to the Heal with
[00:54:48] Grace Show page wherever you
[00:54:49] listen and tap the plus
[00:54:51] sign or click on the follow
[00:54:52] button so you don't miss an
[00:54:53] episode.
[00:54:54] It helps both of us out.
[00:54:56] While you're there, if you could
[00:54:57] get a five star review
[00:54:59] so that this podcast can reach
[00:55:00] more people, it would mean
[00:55:02] so much to me so I can
[00:55:03] continue sharing episodes that
[00:55:05] help you as well as others.
[00:55:07] Thanks for listening and I hope
[00:55:08] this brings you hope on your
[00:55:10] journey.