Healing Interstitial Cystitis Through the Nervous System

[00:00:00] Hey there, and welcome to Heal with Grace.
[00:00:03] I'm your host, Grace Secker, and I'm a holistic licensed therapist and nervous system coach
[00:00:08] who believes that the chronic and often unseen symptoms you're living with are a sign of
[00:00:12] something deeper going on.
[00:00:14] A sign that your nervous system needs attention.
[00:00:17] In each episode, I'll share the science behind the most common chronic health disorders
[00:00:21] plus holistic health tips using mental, physical, and spiritual practices.
[00:00:26] You'll hear what I've learned in my journey and the true stories from our trusted guests
[00:00:30] so you can feel less alone in your experience and give yourself grace no matter what you're
[00:00:34] going through.
[00:00:36] So without further ado, settle in and get cozy.
[00:00:38] It's time to Heal with Grace.
[00:00:42] Hello, hello.
[00:00:43] Welcome back to Heal with Grace podcast.
[00:00:45] I have a very special guest, Callie Cratcheter online, and we have done a podcast on hers
[00:00:51] before.
[00:00:52] I've been a guest with her and we've collaborated in her program and I'm super excited to
[00:00:56] have her because she's a registered dietician but very specific to interstitial
[00:01:01] cystitis.
[00:01:02] I'm excited to have her on and talk about how nervous system regulation really helps
[00:01:06] with IC.
[00:01:07] So, hi, Callie.
[00:01:08] Welcome.
[00:01:09] Hi.
[00:01:10] Thanks for having me.
[00:01:11] I'm really excited to talk more about this, raise awareness for IC and tie in the nervous
[00:01:18] system practices that you teach to just helping with a bladder condition or just
[00:01:25] overall health.
[00:01:26] Yeah, really excited.
[00:01:27] Yeah.
[00:01:28] So tell me a little bit about your background.
[00:01:30] How did you become a RD registered dietician specifically for IC and you're one of the
[00:01:35] only ones that really does this, right?
[00:01:37] Yeah.
[00:01:38] Yeah.
[00:01:39] So I've lived with interstitial cystitis my whole life when I was a kid.
[00:01:43] Every time I went pee, it felt like I was peeing fire.
[00:01:46] That's like my easiest way to describe it.
[00:01:48] So if you have ever had a UTI before, you know, you get that pain, you get
[00:01:52] that frequency, the urgency.
[00:01:54] You're sitting on the toilet waiting for like one drop of pee to come out and then
[00:01:59] you feel worse, but your brain thinks it's going to feel better.
[00:02:02] So basically the difference between a UTI and IC is you will have a bacterial infection
[00:02:10] with a UTI and with IC there is no infection present.
[00:02:15] So if anybody has ever been to the doctor before with UTI symptoms and your
[00:02:20] doctor is like, well, there's no infection.
[00:02:22] Like we don't know what this is.
[00:02:24] Like it could be interstitial cystitis, among other things.
[00:02:27] It's kind of a diagnosis of exclusion.
[00:02:31] You want to roll other explanations out before giving that diagnosis.
[00:02:35] But yeah, I kind of grew up with this condition.
[00:02:37] It was really tough because no one around me was experiencing what I was.
[00:02:43] In terms of my pain, I just kind of sucked it up and pushed through the pain, developed
[00:02:49] a really high pain tolerance and then played a bunch of sports.
[00:02:52] I went to college to play volleyball.
[00:02:55] College was really tough with a chronic illness.
[00:02:58] There's lots of changes there.
[00:03:00] You know, you have all this stress now.
[00:03:02] You're in a completely new environment.
[00:03:05] There's new food.
[00:03:06] There's alcohol.
[00:03:08] There's just a lot going on.
[00:03:10] And that was like the peak of my symptoms.
[00:03:14] That's also when I got my diagnosis and finally like how to name for
[00:03:19] what I was experiencing.
[00:03:22] And I started my treatment journey, did a bunch of really invasive treatments,
[00:03:28] lots of procedures, all of the treatment options for IC are experimental.
[00:03:34] There's nothing that is like, this is going to cure you.
[00:03:37] There is no cure.
[00:03:39] So it's all kind of just like trial and error.
[00:03:41] None of the treatments that I was doing were giving me any relief.
[00:03:46] And so I was feeling, you know, hopeless.
[00:03:49] I was like, what's wrong with me?
[00:03:51] Why isn't anything helping my pain?
[00:03:53] And then, you know, long story short, I eventually hit rock bottom,
[00:03:57] exhausted all my options, still had pain, so hopeless about the future.
[00:04:03] And then I decided to change my approach and take a more natural, holistic
[00:04:09] approach, go back to the basics.
[00:04:11] So I ended up doing an elimination diet to determine if I had any diet
[00:04:16] sensitivities, which back then I did.
[00:04:19] My bladder was just very angry.
[00:04:22] I started to go to therapy.
[00:04:24] I needed to talk about my stress and a lot of stuff that like just happened
[00:04:30] growing up that you talked about in therapy.
[00:04:32] I went to pelvic floor physical therapy, which is another really
[00:04:35] helpful treatment for people with interstitial cystitis or pelvic floor
[00:04:40] dysfunction, which commonly go together.
[00:04:43] So, you know, going back to the basics was huge for me.
[00:04:47] And that is what brought me the most relief from my symptoms.
[00:04:52] And that is basically what inspired me to specialize in interstitial
[00:04:58] cystitis as a dietitian.
[00:05:00] You know, you go through a lot of like undergrad work.
[00:05:03] You, we have to do a year long diet headache internship, you know,
[00:05:07] pass this big board exam.
[00:05:09] And then most people end up going into a hospital setting or like
[00:05:13] a long-term care setting.
[00:05:14] And I did that for two years.
[00:05:16] But I knew in the back of my head that there was only one other
[00:05:20] dietitian in the world that was specializing in this and helping
[00:05:23] people with it.
[00:05:24] And I saw an opportunity to help people get the results that I got.
[00:05:30] And that's kind of how I got started.
[00:05:33] That was maybe three years ago.
[00:05:34] And yeah, it was a really long story.
[00:05:38] So I'm going to, I'm going to let you take it from here.
[00:05:41] So you made a lot of progress making natural holistic changes.
[00:05:45] And when it came to things like diet, even mental health,
[00:05:48] physical health, pelvic floor, things like that.
[00:05:51] So you made a lot of progress, which is what started the journey
[00:05:53] of you helping others do that as well, right?
[00:05:56] So when did the idea or recognition of your nervous
[00:06:00] system come into play?
[00:06:02] OK, so right now I'm 28.
[00:06:04] I would say when I was 26, I had this realization.
[00:06:07] Like I was already working with IC clients.
[00:06:10] And I was noticing that there was a lot of them that
[00:06:15] were triggered by stress.
[00:06:17] And I started to do my own research because I'm someone
[00:06:23] who I get annoyed easily.
[00:06:25] I call it my rage monster.
[00:06:27] I get this overwhelming sense of rage a lot.
[00:06:30] I have very sensitive senses, maybe sense of smell.
[00:06:36] My skin gets irritated easily.
[00:06:37] And so I was doing research and I
[00:06:39] saw that these are all signs that your nervous system could
[00:06:42] be dysregulated and is stuck in a state of fight, flight,
[00:06:48] or freeze.
[00:06:48] And upon learning more, I was like, this is 100% me.
[00:06:54] I believe that my nervous system has
[00:06:56] been dysregulated for the majority of my life.
[00:06:59] And that is definitely one of my root causes,
[00:07:05] the other being pelvic floor dysfunction.
[00:07:07] And so once I started to identify that and then learn more,
[00:07:14] that's when I started to find different self-help methods
[00:07:19] or joining different courses or talking to people like you
[00:07:22] and following you on social media.
[00:07:23] That's when I started to learn more about things
[00:07:26] that I can do and start experimenting with practices
[00:07:29] and techniques that work best for me.
[00:07:32] Because what works best for you is probably not
[00:07:34] going to work for me.
[00:07:35] So had to kind of do some trial and error with that as well.
[00:07:39] So one of your first understandings or maybe
[00:07:42] realization is a better word was that maybe more
[00:07:46] of your emotional health stress affected your symptoms.
[00:07:50] Is that right?
[00:07:51] Yes.
[00:07:52] It's just so obvious in my life.
[00:07:54] Like it does kind of bleed into my relationship
[00:07:58] with my boyfriend and sometimes my parents, my friends.
[00:08:02] And I started to reflect on that in therapy.
[00:08:05] And I was like, there's got to be something more to this.
[00:08:09] Like I can't just be this way.
[00:08:11] Like there's got to be a reason.
[00:08:12] I'm one of those people.
[00:08:13] There needs to be a reason.
[00:08:15] I'm a huge perfectionist.
[00:08:17] And I think identifying that was really big.
[00:08:21] And then connecting it to my physical bladder symptoms.
[00:08:24] Like when I'm stressed, I'm clenching my pelvic floor
[00:08:28] muscles.
[00:08:29] And that, in turn, increases my bladder pain,
[00:08:33] which anatomically makes sense.
[00:08:36] So it was just like connecting all of those dots
[00:08:39] was so important to start me on this journey
[00:08:42] to regulating my nervous system.
[00:08:44] Yeah.
[00:08:45] I'm going to go back to specifically the nervous system.
[00:08:47] But just even that idea, not even idea,
[00:08:50] but the actual holding pattern that
[00:08:52] happens in your body when we have certain,
[00:08:56] I'll say, stress response emotions.
[00:08:59] Anger rage is such a big one.
[00:09:01] It actually is so indicative of pain.
[00:09:03] It's actually a direct result of pain.
[00:09:05] I know someone who she recognizes that when she's
[00:09:08] been angry for a couple days, she has a migraine the next day.
[00:09:11] Like it's a very cause and effect for her.
[00:09:13] So similarly, in other parts of our bodies, we hold tension.
[00:09:16] It's not just anger for people listening.
[00:09:17] I mean, all types of emotions that get stuck and resistant.
[00:09:20] So I just want to highlight that because that's
[00:09:22] such huge realization that consciously I think
[00:09:26] everyone listening to this can probably kind of understand
[00:09:29] in a way once you realize that.
[00:09:31] But really understanding, like you said,
[00:09:33] fitting what your specific emotions are
[00:09:36] to your specific symptoms is another layer to it.
[00:09:39] So then my question is for the nervous system,
[00:09:42] other than the emotional health,
[00:09:44] what have you been doing nervous system-wise,
[00:09:47] or at least interested in that you've recognized,
[00:09:50] can help you specifically with your symptoms?
[00:09:53] Nervous system is component specifically of IC.
[00:09:56] So I know that, I mean, you know,
[00:09:58] there's probably people listening.
[00:09:59] If you've listened to this or worked with me
[00:10:02] that there's a component to the nervous system
[00:10:04] that we really see as like almost the root cause
[00:10:06] of a lot of different diagnoses or symptoms.
[00:10:08] But when it comes to things like IC, that is a physical,
[00:10:12] well, like you said, it's kind of an elimination diagnosis.
[00:10:15] So do you see that nervous system is a part of it?
[00:10:18] Do you see that it's a very strong root cause?
[00:10:21] Like how do you see that fitting with IC?
[00:10:23] Yeah, I personally do feel like it is
[00:10:27] a very likely root cause of IC.
[00:10:29] I never say anything definitive
[00:10:31] because we don't know for sure.
[00:10:33] But I will say in working with over a hundred people now
[00:10:37] with IC, the majority of my clients,
[00:10:40] you know, come into my program thinking
[00:10:43] they're like really diet sensitive,
[00:10:45] like diet food is the problem
[00:10:47] because that's what our doctor is telling us.
[00:10:49] But it usually ends up that food's not the problem
[00:10:54] and a lot of them have,
[00:10:58] their nervous system is dysregulated
[00:11:00] and that is most likely at the root
[00:11:03] of their pain, frequency and urgency.
[00:11:07] And most people it takes a while
[00:11:10] to come to that realization.
[00:11:12] Like we talk about it all the time
[00:11:15] on our group coaching calls.
[00:11:16] We have lots of education.
[00:11:18] I mean, you created a whole three-part series
[00:11:21] for my clients on nervous system stuff.
[00:11:24] And, you know, they can watch that,
[00:11:26] but I just think there's,
[00:11:28] everyone has their own like time period
[00:11:30] where they're like, okay, this is possible.
[00:11:33] It's like a progression of realizing
[00:11:37] that that is your issue, you know?
[00:11:41] Yeah.
[00:11:41] And that's an important one,
[00:11:43] especially with the food piece.
[00:11:45] So then being a dietitian,
[00:11:49] how do you talk to people about how much food affects you
[00:11:51] versus how much nervous system affects you?
[00:11:53] I know it's kind of a big question.
[00:11:54] There would be question almost.
[00:11:56] But it's so, I mean, no matter,
[00:11:58] I will say, even if it's IC,
[00:11:59] no matter what you're coming into this work for,
[00:12:02] I talk with everyone about it because like you said,
[00:12:04] everyone's told diet is either the answer
[00:12:07] or the biggest answer.
[00:12:08] It's gonna fix everything, right?
[00:12:09] So how do you talk to people about that?
[00:12:11] What do you say?
[00:12:12] Well, like I was kind of saying earlier,
[00:12:15] when people get diagnosed,
[00:12:17] their doctor hands them this list of foods and drinks
[00:12:19] they can no longer have.
[00:12:20] So it's literally everything that tastes good
[00:12:25] and is fun, like alcohol, coffee,
[00:12:27] citrus, tomato, tomato products,
[00:12:30] chocolate, soy, artificial sweeteners,
[00:12:32] like literally everything that tastes good and is fun.
[00:12:37] And what's the basis for that?
[00:12:38] Like where does that come from, that list?
[00:12:40] There was a study done in 2007.
[00:12:43] So researchers sent out this questionnaire
[00:12:47] to a couple hundred people asking them,
[00:12:49] what do you think, it was like a list of hundreds
[00:12:53] of foods and beverages.
[00:12:54] Like what do you think bothers your bladder the most?
[00:12:57] And so they kind of took that data
[00:12:59] and it was only from like a hundred people
[00:13:00] who returned this questionnaire.
[00:13:03] And that's what they created this IC diet from.
[00:13:06] And there have been like questionnaire based studies
[00:13:08] since then kind of confirming their findings,
[00:13:10] but diet really isn't something that you can isolate
[00:13:14] in a study when it comes to IC,
[00:13:16] just because there's so many other variables
[00:13:19] like stress and hormones and your pelvic floor,
[00:13:22] there's just too much going on and you can't isolate that.
[00:13:26] So there is definitely a lack of education happening
[00:13:33] between the provider and the patient
[00:13:36] when they get diagnosed.
[00:13:37] So the recommendation,
[00:13:41] the researchers that created the IC diet,
[00:13:43] they recommend to do an elimination diet
[00:13:46] to determine your level of diet sensitivity
[00:13:48] because some people aren't diet sensitive at all,
[00:13:52] other people are.
[00:13:53] And people just fall in the middle of that spectrum.
[00:13:56] So you just gotta figure out where you are
[00:13:58] because if you don't,
[00:14:01] common things that I see happening among people with IC
[00:14:05] is they're severely restricting their diet.
[00:14:08] They're doing that most of the time for too long.
[00:14:11] So I've had people come to me
[00:14:14] following the IC diet for years.
[00:14:15] And some people are eating the same like 15 to 20 foods.
[00:14:20] And that impacts so many different parts of your life.
[00:14:24] We live in such a food focused society.
[00:14:27] It's like everywhere you go, there's food,
[00:14:29] there's drinks, any social event, it's everywhere.
[00:14:33] So it just like really amps up the stress
[00:14:37] and the stress will trigger your IC.
[00:14:40] So it's just this vicious cycle.
[00:14:42] And so my belief is that everybody,
[00:14:48] aside of anyone who has like an eating disorder
[00:14:51] or anything like that,
[00:14:51] I believe everybody should be doing an elimination diet
[00:14:54] in the beginning so that you can avoid
[00:14:57] this severe restriction.
[00:14:59] You can avoid any food fear that develops.
[00:15:01] You can avoid weight loss and nutrient deficiencies.
[00:15:05] Like there's so many things that can go wrong
[00:15:07] when you're not really paying attention to your diet.
[00:15:11] And yeah, food fear is another really big thing
[00:15:15] in the IC community that lots of people are struggling with.
[00:15:18] And I do think that that just like feeds
[00:15:21] into nervous system dysregulation.
[00:15:24] Yes, 1,000% I will talk about it forever.
[00:15:28] The more you fear something,
[00:15:30] the more your brain is gonna tell you it is dangerous.
[00:15:32] So the longer that you're on these diets
[00:15:34] and been told that food is gonna impact you
[00:15:37] in the beginning, yeah, it probably is.
[00:15:40] But it doesn't mean it has to be forever kind of like
[00:15:41] you're saying it doesn't have to be a life sentence
[00:15:43] of this certain diet because really your nervous system
[00:15:46] is just too stressed out
[00:15:47] and it's sending dangerous signals
[00:15:50] to every time you eat these foods.
[00:15:51] So then I don't know how much you do
[00:15:54] or don't eliminate anymore,
[00:15:55] but can you speak to like your trajectory of that?
[00:15:59] Like my personal experience?
[00:16:01] Yeah, and or what you see with other people
[00:16:03] like do they have to continue on diets
[00:16:06] for all periods of time?
[00:16:07] Yeah, so for me when I was in college
[00:16:10] and my bladder was super angry,
[00:16:11] there were certain things I couldn't have
[00:16:14] like coffee and alcohol.
[00:16:16] They would give me what I call the bladder hangover
[00:16:18] the next day.
[00:16:19] But over the years, you know,
[00:16:21] once I started addressing all of those other parts
[00:16:24] or pieces of my IC puzzle is how I call it.
[00:16:27] That's when I started to like calm things down.
[00:16:29] I think the nerves in my bladder really calmed down
[00:16:32] and now I can eat and drink whatever I want.
[00:16:35] So, you know, I think that can be the case
[00:16:39] for a lot of people, maybe not everyone,
[00:16:43] but what I've noticed with the people I work with
[00:16:47] is, you know, they're either not diet sensitive,
[00:16:50] maybe they have one to maybe three things
[00:16:53] that they're sensitive to.
[00:16:54] The people who have the highest diet sensitivity
[00:16:57] are those that have hunter's lesions.
[00:17:01] So those are basically found in five to 10%
[00:17:03] of people diagnosed with IC
[00:17:05] and there are these open wounds on the bladder wall.
[00:17:08] So you can imagine that urine touching that urine
[00:17:11] can be acidic, like that's gonna be painful.
[00:17:14] So they, it makes sense that those people
[00:17:16] have a higher level of diet sensitivity,
[00:17:19] but like you need to figure that out
[00:17:22] through the elimination diet.
[00:17:23] You need to know, okay, are you diet sensitive
[00:17:26] or are you not?
[00:17:27] Like if you're not diet sensitive,
[00:17:29] you would wanna know that
[00:17:30] so that you can start eating those foods again.
[00:17:32] You can start like going out to eat
[00:17:34] and not being stressed about it.
[00:17:35] You can start like living your life
[00:17:37] and that improves your quality of life and your confidence.
[00:17:40] And yeah, those are kind of like my general observations
[00:17:43] in the people I work with.
[00:17:47] Yeah, I wanna speak to that a little bit
[00:17:48] because there is so much, like we said,
[00:17:51] there's a lot of focus on food
[00:17:52] and the functional holistic health community,
[00:17:56] which on one hand, rightfully so,
[00:17:58] like I'm not gonna sit here and say
[00:17:59] there's no nutritional value to food,
[00:18:01] I need whatever you want, right?
[00:18:03] At the same time, again,
[00:18:05] the more we focus on something more fear-based action
[00:18:08] is taken around things,
[00:18:10] the more that it's gonna stress our nervous system out.
[00:18:12] So it sounds like you're kind of coming
[00:18:14] into this approach as a dietitian of,
[00:18:17] yes, let's look at it,
[00:18:18] like what's actually going to impact you.
[00:18:19] And over time, let's see how we can basically
[00:18:22] increase the foods that you can eat.
[00:18:24] So it doesn't stress you.
[00:18:25] Most people think that dietitians are the food police
[00:18:28] and we're gonna tell you to stop eating things,
[00:18:30] but that couldn't be further from the truth.
[00:18:32] We want to find out how we can add more variety to your diet.
[00:18:37] And with an elimination diet,
[00:18:39] it's short-term restrictions so that you can have
[00:18:42] the things you want long-term.
[00:18:44] So it's just a short-term thing.
[00:18:47] It's not like a long-term diet you need to be following.
[00:18:49] Like you can knock an elimination diet out
[00:18:52] in three-ish months.
[00:18:53] Like it doesn't have to consume your life,
[00:18:56] but yeah, I mean, those are kind of my thoughts on that.
[00:19:00] Yeah.
[00:19:01] And I will say this almost as a,
[00:19:03] I guess disclaimer as you will,
[00:19:05] that because I do work a lot of people
[00:19:06] with eating disorders,
[00:19:07] so yeah, if that's something that you are struggling with,
[00:19:10] that's definitely needs to be taken into consideration.
[00:19:13] It can be tricky when you do struggle with that
[00:19:15] and many people do coming into this community
[00:19:18] because how could you not after probably years
[00:19:20] of having to focus on it or not focusing on it
[00:19:22] or whatever it is.
[00:19:23] So if that is the case,
[00:19:25] definitely have to take that into consideration
[00:19:27] as you're going through being sensitive to foods.
[00:19:30] Is that something you work with or how do you?
[00:19:33] Yeah.
[00:19:33] We have some clients with a history of an eating disorder.
[00:19:36] We don't, if somebody wants to work with us
[00:19:40] and they have an active eating disorder,
[00:19:41] like it's not usually the right time
[00:19:45] to do an elimination diet
[00:19:47] that definitely needs to be treated
[00:19:49] and taken care of.
[00:19:51] It may never be right for someone
[00:19:53] with that history to do an elimination diet.
[00:19:55] Like there's ways that you can test things.
[00:19:58] You don't have to do this big scary elimination diet.
[00:20:01] You can test like one thing at a time.
[00:20:03] It might take longer,
[00:20:04] but you want to be in a good mental headspace
[00:20:08] when you're doing these things.
[00:20:10] So yeah, definitely disclaimer there.
[00:20:13] It's not right for everyone
[00:20:14] and it may not be like the right time for everyone.
[00:20:18] If that makes sense.
[00:20:19] Yeah, definitely.
[00:20:20] I've actually had times where post my recovery
[00:20:23] from eating disorder, I've had doctors tell me,
[00:20:25] ooh, I see these on your testing
[00:20:27] and we need to do this type of diet or eliminate this.
[00:20:30] And I would just flat out say,
[00:20:32] even when I was feeling pretty good
[00:20:34] and didn't think I was very triggered
[00:20:36] by an eating disorder anymore,
[00:20:37] I still said that's actually not an option for me.
[00:20:40] We need to figure out other ways to address this
[00:20:42] because I can't go there.
[00:20:43] It's too much of a trigger.
[00:20:45] So you can do that.
[00:20:46] You can have it yourself.
[00:20:47] Are you really annoyed when doctors do that?
[00:20:49] Like they don't even see it in your shoulder
[00:20:51] because they're just not understanding
[00:20:54] how that recommendation can affect people.
[00:20:57] It's really frustrating to see.
[00:20:58] And I've seen people get diagnosed with IC,
[00:21:04] learn about the IC diet
[00:21:05] and then develop an eating disorder.
[00:21:07] So it could be before or after the diagnosis.
[00:21:11] Yeah.
[00:21:12] There's just not a lot of information out there.
[00:21:14] Not many doctors are informed about it
[00:21:16] or they don't even know the signs to look for.
[00:21:18] Talked to many functional MDs about it
[00:21:20] and I've had to kind of inform them of what to look for
[00:21:24] because it's just not known, it's not taught.
[00:21:25] So yeah.
[00:21:27] Agreed.
[00:21:28] Okay.
[00:21:29] So let's go back to then actual things
[00:21:32] that you've seen do help people
[00:21:34] in terms of nervous system regulation,
[00:21:36] whether it's yourself, whether it's people,
[00:21:38] whether it's things that I brought into the program,
[00:21:40] like what's helping people?
[00:21:43] Yeah.
[00:21:43] So I'm trying to think back to things that I've tried.
[00:21:47] So the first thing,
[00:21:49] one of the first places I started was curable, the app.
[00:21:53] That was really helpful.
[00:21:55] I mean, they have a free version.
[00:21:57] That was really great.
[00:21:59] There were a couple of books that I read
[00:22:01] that helped me realize that my nervous system
[00:22:04] was dysregulated.
[00:22:05] So one of those was,
[00:22:09] of course I'm gonna blank on it.
[00:22:10] The Alan Gordon book.
[00:22:12] The Way Out.
[00:22:13] The Way Out.
[00:22:14] That one was really eye-opening for me.
[00:22:16] And so many of my clients have read it.
[00:22:18] Like I swear we need a book club at this point.
[00:22:21] Like I just think it was very easy to read
[00:22:24] and well-written.
[00:22:25] Those two, curable and the Way Out is what I,
[00:22:28] like one of the first two things I suggested in my program
[00:22:31] and I'll also link them in the show notes.
[00:22:33] Yeah.
[00:22:34] Is it easy way to like dip your toe into this?
[00:22:36] Like get that education down.
[00:22:38] And with curable, like you can listen to that stuff
[00:22:41] when you're driving.
[00:22:42] Like there's lots that you can do
[00:22:45] besides like reading and doing stuff like that.
[00:22:47] There's another one,
[00:22:48] there's another book specific to pelvic pain
[00:22:52] that of course I'm blanking on right now.
[00:22:54] Oh, it's called Why Pelvic Pain Hurts.
[00:22:56] And it kind of ties the nervous system in
[00:22:58] with pelvic pain specifically.
[00:23:01] And that's a really, really easy read as well.
[00:23:04] I'm currently trying to make my way
[00:23:06] through the body keeps the score,
[00:23:08] but that one is kind of tough to get through.
[00:23:11] I don't know if you have thoughts on that book specifically,
[00:23:13] but that's my experience.
[00:23:15] It is, the body keeps the score is kind of like the OG
[00:23:19] of connecting your mind and body
[00:23:21] and how trauma lives in the body.
[00:23:22] So it's, it was written, I can't remember,
[00:23:25] but kind of a while ago back in the day
[00:23:27] and some people read it going through therapy,
[00:23:30] going through school for counseling,
[00:23:31] but it's made a comeback again of like,
[00:23:33] hey, we need to look at this again.
[00:23:35] We need to really bring this into how we treat people.
[00:23:37] So yeah, it's a great one,
[00:23:39] but it, yes, it's much more focused,
[00:23:42] more deep into mental, emotional, body-focused, yeah.
[00:23:45] Definitely.
[00:23:46] So those were the books and the app that I used.
[00:23:49] I like to follow certain accounts on social media.
[00:23:53] I find that I enjoy that.
[00:23:54] I like to learn from like carousel posts
[00:23:56] that people make and different reels.
[00:24:00] So you connected me with a bunch of different people
[00:24:04] with different styles of like teaching.
[00:24:06] So I follow a bunch of people.
[00:24:09] I'm not sure if, if like we could put some examples
[00:24:12] in the show notes or something, but.
[00:24:13] Yeah, yeah, I will, I'll, I have a list.
[00:24:16] And then I decided to do a nervous system
[00:24:21] like rewiring course back in October.
[00:24:25] And you were helping me go through
[00:24:28] this decision-making process because I was,
[00:24:30] I am a perfectionist.
[00:24:32] I don't want to make the wrong decision
[00:24:34] and I have a certain learning style.
[00:24:36] So I could not for the life of me decide
[00:24:39] on which program to join,
[00:24:42] but I ended up joining this 12-week program.
[00:24:45] And while it was really helpful,
[00:24:47] I will say the majority of the lessons were audio lessons.
[00:24:51] And I'm more of a visual learner.
[00:24:53] So it was hard for me to stay consistent
[00:24:56] with that course specifically.
[00:24:59] I'm currently, I joined on Black Friday,
[00:25:03] the vital side membership that I feel is,
[00:25:07] is a really great tool to learn more about the nervous system.
[00:25:11] She does some good like visual stuff as well.
[00:25:15] So that's just like a tool that I have to use
[00:25:17] when I need it.
[00:25:19] I did a trial period of a nervous system course
[00:25:23] that was designed by a pelvic floor physical therapist
[00:25:26] called Pelvic Sense.
[00:25:28] That one was, was pretty cool, but I didn't finish it.
[00:25:32] The nervous system series that you made for my clients
[00:25:35] was really helpful for me.
[00:25:37] I mean, I had to go through that thing twice
[00:25:39] to really retain and understand things.
[00:25:42] I always say digest it.
[00:25:44] So I don't know if you want to talk a little bit
[00:25:45] about like what you put in those classes
[00:25:47] to give everybody like an understanding
[00:25:49] of what we learned from it.
[00:25:52] Well, so let me actually ask this.
[00:25:56] We've talked about how you really recognize
[00:25:59] that your emotions specifically things like rage
[00:26:02] and affected your stress.
[00:26:04] So that's something,
[00:26:05] that's a huge component of nervous system regulation
[00:26:07] is emotional regulation.
[00:26:08] People don't understand that enough actually.
[00:26:11] They think just because of reading things,
[00:26:12] there's a lot of like physical practices you can do.
[00:26:15] But honestly, mental and emotional health,
[00:26:17] I see as one of the biggest factors
[00:26:19] to make some shifts and really suit your nervous system.
[00:26:22] So we talked about that out of these programs,
[00:26:25] is there anything that just really resonated with you?
[00:26:28] Again, we know that things, you know,
[00:26:30] sit with people differently,
[00:26:32] but was it maybe certain like breathing or meditation
[00:26:36] or emotional practices, journal practices,
[00:26:39] lifestyle changes, things like that,
[00:26:42] maybe not necessarily program specific,
[00:26:43] but just things that you notice has shifted over time
[00:26:46] and it might not be some overnight thing.
[00:26:48] Cause again, this is a practice that takes time.
[00:26:51] Yeah, that's a good question.
[00:26:54] I found that I think the first class that you did,
[00:26:57] you had this like illustration or diagram
[00:27:01] that had like the red, yellow and green zones.
[00:27:04] And I just felt that that was a really great,
[00:27:07] what is that thing called?
[00:27:08] So the feel good life.
[00:27:10] Yeah, I can talk a little bit about that.
[00:27:12] I'm gonna have a whole episode on it.
[00:27:13] It just gives you an idea.
[00:27:16] It's a triangle with a scale
[00:27:18] that has red, yellow and green zones
[00:27:20] that it depicts basically different places
[00:27:22] in your nervous system.
[00:27:23] The relaxation response, the fight flight response,
[00:27:26] or the shutdown response.
[00:27:27] And basically you check in with yourself
[00:27:30] to see where you are on a day-to-day basis.
[00:27:32] I usually suggest starting off checking in three times a day
[00:27:35] to really understand what your signals are.
[00:27:38] But the whole point of that
[00:27:39] is to understand your specific signals
[00:27:42] of your nervous system, not someone else's,
[00:27:44] not a generalized view, but what are your mental,
[00:27:47] emotional, physical, sensational beliefs
[00:27:51] of what tells you which zone of your nervous system
[00:27:54] so that when you recognize you're in the stress response,
[00:27:57] then I give you tools.
[00:27:59] We give you kind of like a step-by-step process
[00:28:01] to get into the relaxation response.
[00:28:03] So that's, is that what you were talking about?
[00:28:04] Yeah, yeah, that was helpful for me
[00:28:06] to just have that baseline knowledge
[00:28:09] where I could check in with myself multiple times a day.
[00:28:12] And of course I was in that like yellow zone
[00:28:15] most of the time, I think.
[00:28:17] Because red was like the freeze, the shutdown, right?
[00:28:21] Yeah, I don't really fall into that.
[00:28:23] I feel like I'm more of like the fight-flight-type response.
[00:28:27] So that was helpful.
[00:28:29] I know that that was really helpful
[00:28:30] for a lot of my clients.
[00:28:32] Like they're obsessed with your nervous system series.
[00:28:34] So that was really helpful.
[00:28:36] And then I'm trying to think of other things
[00:28:38] that have stuck with me from these courses.
[00:28:40] I mean, in the vital side, the rewire membership,
[00:28:45] you know, there's certain activities
[00:28:47] that she recommends you do.
[00:28:48] And I'm someone who, if an activity makes me feel stupid
[00:28:52] when I'm doing it, like silly, I don't buy into it.
[00:28:56] And I don't know why, I just can't.
[00:29:00] And so those types of things aren't always for me,
[00:29:05] but I'll give them a try sometimes.
[00:29:08] And there was one thing that she recommended doing.
[00:29:13] It's, I forget what she calls it,
[00:29:15] but it's like you identify when you're in a moment of,
[00:29:19] like she calls it your bear.
[00:29:21] So whatever your symptom is, like for me,
[00:29:23] it would be like bladder pain.
[00:29:25] And so if I have like a twinge of bladder pain,
[00:29:27] just like recognizing it, sitting with it,
[00:29:30] you have this whole like 90 second countdown,
[00:29:33] then you push it away.
[00:29:35] And then you say like this declarative statement,
[00:29:37] like I'm healthy, I'm strong, like whatever.
[00:29:39] So, you know, trying to do that consistently is difficult,
[00:29:43] but I do find that when I practice it,
[00:29:46] I do feel a little bit better.
[00:29:48] So yeah, and it's hard right now for me
[00:29:51] because my bladder symptoms are pretty much managed.
[00:29:55] I always say I'm like 95% symptom free.
[00:29:58] So it's less about the pain for me.
[00:30:00] And now it's more about just like that regulation
[00:30:03] and not feeling those emotions of like rage
[00:30:07] and anxiety and annoyance
[00:30:10] that I feel on a day-to-day basis.
[00:30:12] So that's kind of what I'm working through right now.
[00:30:15] So then I wonder for you right now,
[00:30:18] which I hear this from a lot of people too,
[00:30:19] that they're like, well, I don't have specifically people
[00:30:23] that may not identify with specific pain,
[00:30:26] like chronic pain in their body,
[00:30:27] whether that's bladder, that's physical pain,
[00:30:29] they have more like fatigue symptoms or gut issues
[00:30:31] or headaches or something like that,
[00:30:33] which again, pain is just a general term
[00:30:35] that I use for all of that.
[00:30:36] But there's definitely people
[00:30:38] that fall into that category where you are right now,
[00:30:41] where it's not about stopping these pain symptoms
[00:30:44] when they come up because it's so unbearable.
[00:30:46] It's actually really learning how to shift your lifestyle
[00:30:49] or how your emotional regulation.
[00:30:51] And that's huge.
[00:30:52] That's actually the deeper, more core part of this.
[00:30:55] So then oftentimes I find that that learning on,
[00:31:00] learning about emotion regulation
[00:31:01] and not attaching from your emotions
[00:31:03] and learning how to kind of like ride the waves of them.
[00:31:07] So, so important.
[00:31:08] And maybe that's kind of where you are.
[00:31:10] So what I wanna say about that is that
[00:31:14] if you can't tell already,
[00:31:15] there's so many different ways
[00:31:17] to learn how to regulate your nervous system
[00:31:19] and to work with it, because it's just not one thing.
[00:31:22] It encompasses a lot, which can be overwhelming,
[00:31:25] but it really doesn't have to be.
[00:31:26] We have to meet you where you are and what you need,
[00:31:29] which I think is what you're recognizing now.
[00:31:31] Okay, yeah, for a while you were super symptomatic
[00:31:34] and really needed to regulate that pain.
[00:31:36] Now it's not so much immediate pain.
[00:31:38] It's kind of your lifestyle
[00:31:40] and how do you keep yourself
[00:31:41] in that more parasympathetic relaxation response
[00:31:44] instead of spiking into the yellow zone?
[00:31:46] Right, and that just made me think
[00:31:48] of some like lifestyle changes that I've made.
[00:31:50] Like when I wake up in the morning,
[00:31:52] I'm not always successful at this,
[00:31:53] but I try not to look at my phone right away.
[00:31:57] That's definitely a habit that I've had for years.
[00:32:02] And like being an entrepreneur,
[00:32:04] I just feel like so many of us, it's natural.
[00:32:07] It's a habit that we've formed.
[00:32:08] And so trying not to do that,
[00:32:10] trying to break that habit has been helpful.
[00:32:14] Cause like if you wake up and you see an email
[00:32:16] and it's negative, like it kind of ruins your whole day.
[00:32:18] So I don't want to start my day off like that.
[00:32:19] I know that you have this whole routine
[00:32:21] when you wake up, like you do like a breathing exercise
[00:32:24] or something like that, right?
[00:32:27] Something that I want to do in 2024.
[00:32:31] Yeah.
[00:32:32] But yeah, and another thing I added into my
[00:32:36] just daily routine is like essential oils.
[00:32:40] Like finding ones that smell good to me
[00:32:42] and like having like a diffuser.
[00:32:45] Cause I feel like I am a very,
[00:32:48] I'm very sensitive to smells.
[00:32:49] And if there's a good smell,
[00:32:51] I feel like that definitely does have an impact on me
[00:32:54] whether I realize it or not.
[00:32:56] Mm-hmm.
[00:32:57] I love that.
[00:32:58] But these are really great examples
[00:32:59] because they're so important,
[00:33:01] even if they might be small.
[00:33:02] I say this a lot and I preface it
[00:33:04] to some of my clients.
[00:33:05] Okay, I understand this might be minimal
[00:33:07] when you might roll your eyes at me,
[00:33:09] but it's really important and it really helps.
[00:33:11] Like the phone thing,
[00:33:12] I will scream that from the rooftops,
[00:33:15] looking at it before bed or when you wake up
[00:33:17] is so disruptive, so disruptive to our system.
[00:33:20] So yeah, even if it's the first 30 minutes
[00:33:23] of the morning, I like to say an hour,
[00:33:25] but do what you can do, super helpful.
[00:33:28] And it doesn't have to be anything long or crazy.
[00:33:30] Like yeah, my morning practice is
[00:33:32] I usually do a meditation and I'll just do,
[00:33:35] I mean, sometimes it's a minute to five minutes
[00:33:37] of like a live massage, like Vegas nerve,
[00:33:39] especially now that I'm in a dry climate,
[00:33:41] I wake up like meeting that.
[00:33:43] So anyway, long story short, these little things matter,
[00:33:46] but it doesn't have to be some crazy long routine.
[00:33:49] Like just implement little things here and there.
[00:33:51] Yeah, and I recently got more into like reading
[00:33:54] for fun again, and that kind of replaces
[00:33:57] before bed, like my TikTok scrolling
[00:34:00] and all of those unhealthy habits I had,
[00:34:03] I replaced it with that.
[00:34:04] And I do feel like I sleep better,
[00:34:08] but it is again, something I need to be more consistent about
[00:34:11] because consistency is an issue for me.
[00:34:14] Yeah, I will say this about consistency.
[00:34:17] Most people think it is an issue.
[00:34:18] And for us humans, it's natural for that to be an issue.
[00:34:22] It's probably not as much as you think,
[00:34:25] especially when you're coming from a place
[00:34:27] of perfectionism and needing to be on a ride all the time,
[00:34:32] which most of us are if you're listening to this,
[00:34:34] you think you need to be like perfect
[00:34:36] with what you're doing all the time.
[00:34:37] And it adds and flows of course, but yeah, for sure.
[00:34:41] I mean, hey, new year, new me,
[00:34:44] I'm gonna keep moving forward.
[00:34:46] Cool, okay, so I wanna ask a couple more questions.
[00:34:50] You may have an answer to this
[00:34:51] and it doesn't have to be specific or not,
[00:34:53] but what do you want people to know
[00:34:55] who have just been diagnosed with IC?
[00:34:57] Like what's one of the most important things
[00:34:58] or a few important things
[00:35:00] that you think can really help them?
[00:35:02] It's funny because I literally just posted
[00:35:04] a TikTok about this.
[00:35:05] Like the things that I would do in the next 30 days
[00:35:08] if I was just diagnosed with IC
[00:35:11] and the number one thing on that list is to not panic.
[00:35:15] There's a lot of people out there
[00:35:16] that are gonna have a pessimistic outlook
[00:35:20] on this condition.
[00:35:22] We have no known cure,
[00:35:23] but that doesn't mean that you can't like
[00:35:26] live your best life with this condition.
[00:35:29] Like I'm a prime example.
[00:35:30] I've struggled for two decades with this,
[00:35:34] but once I figured out my root causes
[00:35:36] and started treating those things,
[00:35:38] like the symptoms virtually disappeared.
[00:35:40] So there's so much hope
[00:35:42] and I don't think that that's talked about enough.
[00:35:45] So that is definitely one thing mindset-wise
[00:35:50] that I would recommend.
[00:35:52] I would recommend finding some sort of support system,
[00:35:56] whether it's like someone in your life,
[00:35:59] it helps if they have interstitial cystitis.
[00:36:02] Not many people are gonna talk about that.
[00:36:04] But once you start talking about that in your life,
[00:36:06] like chances are you're gonna find somebody else
[00:36:08] who's like, oh, I have that too or my sister has that.
[00:36:11] And like you can get connected to people
[00:36:12] and find people that can relate to you
[00:36:16] because this is a really isolating condition.
[00:36:19] There are support groups on Facebook,
[00:36:22] but if you're not in a healthy mental space,
[00:36:26] I would not recommend getting into those.
[00:36:28] They can be helpful,
[00:36:29] but they also can get kind of like
[00:36:32] dark and depressing sometimes.
[00:36:34] So yeah, support system is huge.
[00:36:37] I find that with my clients and my return mission program,
[00:36:40] like having opportunities to meet other IC warriors
[00:36:44] face to face, like on a Zoom call each week,
[00:36:47] like that just takes a whole like weight off your shoulders
[00:36:51] where you know that you're not alone anymore.
[00:36:53] You're not the only person
[00:36:55] going through what you're going through.
[00:36:57] Another thing I would want people to know
[00:37:00] is that, you know, your doctors may be recommending
[00:37:03] like these invasive procedures.
[00:37:05] There's like a hydrodistention procedure.
[00:37:07] There's installations.
[00:37:09] You can get Botox injections.
[00:37:11] Like there's lots of invasive things that you can do,
[00:37:13] but a lot of doctors kind of skip over
[00:37:15] the noninvasive stuff,
[00:37:17] the more natural and holistic stuff,
[00:37:20] things like doing an elimination diet,
[00:37:22] focusing on hydrating,
[00:37:24] going to public for physical therapy,
[00:37:27] addressing your nervous system.
[00:37:28] Like those are things that if I could go back,
[00:37:32] I would focus on right away
[00:37:34] because I truly believe that I would have gotten relief
[00:37:36] like a decade sooner.
[00:37:39] But I mean, I was on my own journey.
[00:37:41] I was looking for a magic cure.
[00:37:43] I was like, oh, you have a medication for me.
[00:37:45] Like I don't care about the side effects.
[00:37:47] Just let me try it.
[00:37:48] Like I was kind of in that mental space.
[00:37:50] So that was tough.
[00:37:52] But yeah, just know that like your doctor,
[00:37:55] like yes, they have training and everything,
[00:37:57] but like they're most likely don't have
[00:37:59] in our social status.
[00:38:00] They're not living in your body.
[00:38:03] You know your body best.
[00:38:05] You have to advocate for yourself.
[00:38:07] If you don't like what your doctor is recommending,
[00:38:10] like shop around for a doctor, find someone else.
[00:38:13] Maybe it's just not the right fit.
[00:38:16] Like don't just settle for like something
[00:38:20] that feels wrong in your gut.
[00:38:22] So I'm kind of all over the place of this answer,
[00:38:24] but I hope I gave you some good tips there.
[00:38:27] Yeah, no, definitely.
[00:38:28] I mean, I think lots of important nuggets,
[00:38:31] one of them that stood out to me
[00:38:33] that you kind of said about a couple different ways
[00:38:35] was community, right?
[00:38:37] Like finding whether it's someone that has it,
[00:38:40] whether it's a community of groups that has it.
[00:38:41] And this goes for any kind of diagnosis
[00:38:43] that you're getting if you're listening to this
[00:38:45] that the chronic illness, chronic condition
[00:38:48] can be so isolating.
[00:38:50] So when you can find a group that's uplifting
[00:38:53] that it isn't gonna take you down,
[00:38:54] like some Facebook groups kind of are
[00:38:56] that are super negative groups that are uplifting
[00:38:59] and actually focus on healing and making progress
[00:39:02] and not just identifying this as like a life sentence.
[00:39:06] That was super amazing.
[00:39:07] Yeah.
[00:39:08] Yeah, I'll have people find me on TikTok
[00:39:10] and they're like, this is amazing.
[00:39:12] Like I've never met anyone else with this condition
[00:39:14] and like I'm just like making fun of it
[00:39:15] but in a positive way.
[00:39:17] So having those resources available, like my podcast,
[00:39:22] just being able to listen and see someone talk about it
[00:39:25] is really comforting for people.
[00:39:27] Yeah, definitely.
[00:39:29] Okay, last question that you might have already talked about
[00:39:32] as we talked through what you're doing
[00:39:34] but I like to ask people,
[00:39:35] what are you loving right now
[00:39:37] when you're well and sturdy?
[00:39:38] What's lighting you up?
[00:39:39] I would say like moving my body in a way
[00:39:42] that I enjoy is important for me.
[00:39:45] I enjoy doing bar classes.
[00:39:48] So that is, because for a while I went from like,
[00:39:53] really intense high school and then college workouts
[00:39:56] to like what do I do?
[00:39:58] Like what the heck do I do?
[00:40:00] So it took me a while to find a way to exercise
[00:40:04] that like I didn't dread doing.
[00:40:07] Like my boyfriend loves running,
[00:40:08] I absolutely can't stand running.
[00:40:09] So I found that and now I feel like it's great
[00:40:12] for my physical and mental health.
[00:40:14] Moving into 2024, like I do want to keep going
[00:40:17] with this nervous system regulation journey.
[00:40:20] Like I'm always looking for new tools
[00:40:22] to utilize tools for my toolbox.
[00:40:25] Like that can not only help me
[00:40:27] but can also help my clients as well
[00:40:29] because they all know that I am on my own journey.
[00:40:32] I'm not like in remission.
[00:40:33] I'm not like 100% healed from this thing.
[00:40:36] Like it is a journey.
[00:40:39] There's so many moving pieces to it
[00:40:42] that it's like just one thing at a time.
[00:40:44] I would say being kinder to my body
[00:40:47] like the way that I talk to myself,
[00:40:50] changing that has been really big
[00:40:52] and I'm gonna keep practicing that.
[00:40:54] Definitely just, you know, healthy eating
[00:40:57] like eating my fruits and veggies.
[00:40:58] I'm a huge dessert person.
[00:41:00] So just kind of like balancing that.
[00:41:02] People are always like surprised
[00:41:04] when they see me eating like dessert
[00:41:05] but I'm like, I enjoy it.
[00:41:07] I'm gonna keep eating it.
[00:41:08] I'm not gonna restrict myself.
[00:41:10] Yeah, those are kind of the things
[00:41:11] that I am enjoying right now.
[00:41:14] I'm getting back into music,
[00:41:15] like listening to songs that make me feel happy
[00:41:18] like nostalgic songs.
[00:41:19] I don't know why I really like those.
[00:41:21] And then like comedy.
[00:41:23] I'm getting into comedy
[00:41:24] because I really like laughing.
[00:41:26] Those are so important.
[00:41:27] I'm glad you actually said that.
[00:41:28] Those things matter.
[00:41:29] Those things really, really matter.
[00:41:31] They actually literally impact the cells of your body.
[00:41:34] Like when we laugh, when we look at things
[00:41:36] that light our brains up in a certain way
[00:41:39] truly impacts us.
[00:41:40] So yes, I love it.
[00:41:41] There's nothing I love more than like
[00:41:43] an uncontrollable laugh where I'm like crying.
[00:41:47] I have to cover my face.
[00:41:48] Like that is my favorite.
[00:41:49] Yes.
[00:41:51] Yes.
[00:41:52] I actually had,
[00:41:53] I had like an old personal Instagram account
[00:41:55] that I would specifically only go on there.
[00:41:58] And I used it for just funny videos.
[00:42:00] Like I kind of curated my feed
[00:42:02] to only have funny videos.
[00:42:04] And that would be my like laptop.
[00:42:05] I love it.
[00:42:06] That's a good idea.
[00:42:07] I can just say I have five Instagram accounts right now.
[00:42:10] I can make a six just for that.
[00:42:12] Yeah.
[00:42:14] Awesome.
[00:42:15] All right.
[00:42:16] Thank you so much, Callie.
[00:42:17] Really appreciate it.
[00:42:18] I think this is a wonderful conversation
[00:42:20] and definitely things that people need to hear.
[00:42:22] Yes.
[00:42:23] Thanks for having me.
[00:42:24] If anybody, you know, has questions on IC
[00:42:26] or just like wants to follow me,
[00:42:27] feel free to do that.
[00:42:29] I'm sure you'll link it in the show notes.
[00:42:30] But yeah, my DMs are open
[00:42:32] if anybody needs anything.
[00:42:34] And yeah, thanks for having me.
[00:42:37] Yeah, we'll link all of her information below.
[00:42:39] She has an amazing program
[00:42:40] that helps every send everyone I know with IC,
[00:42:43] which is not a whole lot,
[00:42:44] but definitely clients that I've had.
[00:42:45] I send them her way because it's a wonderful,
[00:42:48] wonderful approach.
[00:42:49] So, all righty.
[00:42:51] Thank you.
[00:42:52] Hey, friend, it's Grace.
[00:42:54] I know you're tired of feeling like managing your physical
[00:42:56] and mental health is just one big moving target.
[00:42:58] I also know that you've spent years of your life
[00:43:00] and hundreds of dollars on doctor's visits,
[00:43:03] juice cleanses, fad diets and fancy supplements,
[00:43:05] only to feel like nothing
[00:43:07] about your chronic symptoms has changed.
[00:43:09] If this sounds like you,
[00:43:10] consider this your invitation
[00:43:12] to find a holistic health protocol
[00:43:13] that works for you and your body,
[00:43:15] even if you have chronic symptoms,
[00:43:17] unhealed trauma or a dysregulated nervous system.
[00:43:20] That's exactly what's waiting for you
[00:43:22] inside the Mind Body Healing Method,
[00:43:24] my 12-week group program that's designed
[00:43:26] to help you say body or chronic symptoms
[00:43:28] through learning how to regulate your nervous system,
[00:43:30] retrain your brain and heal unresolved trauma.
[00:43:34] Our clients have found relief
[00:43:35] from even the most chronic of symptoms,
[00:43:37] including fibromyalgia, sciatica, migraines,
[00:43:40] gut issues and other uncomfortable symptoms
[00:43:42] without pills or a long list of rituals and regimens.
[00:43:45] If you'd like to learn more about our program,
[00:43:48] head over to the show notes and learn more
[00:43:50] because the truth is that there is a protocol
[00:43:52] that works for you.
[00:43:53] You just might not have found the right balance
[00:43:56] for your body yet.
[00:43:58] If this podcast means something to you,
[00:44:00] it would mean so much to me
[00:44:01] if you could do these couple things.
[00:44:03] One, go to the Heal With Grace Show page
[00:44:05] wherever you listen and tap the plus sign
[00:44:08] or click on the follow button so you don't miss an episode.
[00:44:11] It helps both of us out.
[00:44:12] While you're there, if you could give a five-star review
[00:44:15] so that this podcast can reach more people,
[00:44:18] it would mean so much to me
[00:44:20] so I can continue sharing episodes
[00:44:21] that help you as well as others.
[00:44:24] Thanks for listening
[00:44:25] and I hope this brings you hope on your journey.