How Ellen Healed from Long COVID, MCAS, & POTS

[00:00:00] I started to look at the little glimmers around me and realize the paradox of I could still
[00:00:05] be really feeling uncomfortable, but I also at the same time could enjoy some of the things
[00:00:10] that I used to enjoy and that elevated my mood and I started to feel a little bit better.
[00:00:16] I couldn't believe it, you know, and so I pulled myself out of that well by these
[00:00:21] little micro moments.
[00:00:23] Maybe my daughter came and laid, you know, with me, you know, and had some tears or something
[00:00:28] or, you know, I was able to sit outside in the sun for a few minutes or took a shower,
[00:00:34] which was a major feat, you know, and started to celebrate those little moments.
[00:00:39] Hey there, and welcome to Heal with Grace.
[00:00:41] I'm your host, Grace Secker, and I'm a holistic life and therapist and nervous
[00:00:46] system coach who believes that the chronic and often unseen symptoms you're living
[00:00:50] with are a sign of something deeper going on, a sign that your nervous system needs
[00:00:55] attention.
[00:00:56] In each episode, I'll share the science behind the most common chronic health disorders,
[00:01:02] costalistic health tips using mental, physical, and spiritual practices.
[00:01:06] You'll hear what I've learned in my journey and the true stories from our trusted
[00:01:09] guests so you can feel less alone in your experience and give yourself grace no
[00:01:15] matter what you're going through.
[00:01:16] So without further ado, settle in and get cozy.
[00:01:20] It's time to Heal with Grace.
[00:01:21] Hi, Ellen.
[00:01:22] Thank you so much for coming on the Heal with Grace podcast.
[00:01:25] I'm excited for today's episode.
[00:01:26] Well, thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:29] I'm excited to share.
[00:01:30] Yeah.
[00:01:31] We met because you invited me to be a part of your healing community, which I can
[00:01:36] I'll have you talk about a little bit later, but about long COVID, right?
[00:01:40] And so it was really cool to come in and speak.
[00:01:42] I love Q and A's and answering questions and talking about this work.
[00:01:45] Obviously, I have a podcast.
[00:01:48] Yeah, so that was really cool.
[00:01:50] Thank you.
[00:01:50] And that was really cool for you to put for you to have that community
[00:01:53] together. Community is just like so important with this, right?
[00:01:57] So before we go down that road, why don't you introduce yourself?
[00:02:00] Tell us who you are and why you're here.
[00:02:04] Sure.
[00:02:04] I'm Ellen Alden and never thought that I would be in this space.
[00:02:10] But, you know, the universe had other plans.
[00:02:13] And so in 2021, at Christmas, our whole family came down with COVID.
[00:02:19] And I did too, but I was like, oh, good, everybody's getting it together.
[00:02:23] So we'll all be, you know, OK, afterward.
[00:02:25] And everybody else was, except for myself.
[00:02:29] I just noticed that there were some lingering things going on.
[00:02:32] And then months later, there was more symptoms that were coming on
[00:02:37] one after the other.
[00:02:38] And I thought this couldn't be that thing that I've read about called long COVID.
[00:02:42] No, no, no, it just couldn't be.
[00:02:44] So, you know, I really tried to see if I could get back to the normal activities.
[00:02:49] I went, you know, cross-country skiing again.
[00:02:51] And I thought, why can't I do this?
[00:02:54] You know, when I was in bed for a week after and tried just getting back
[00:02:58] to work and I was a writer at the time.
[00:03:01] And just my head wouldn't allow me to think properly.
[00:03:05] Or I kept getting migraines when I'd be on my computer.
[00:03:07] So just like I tried to avoid it as long as I could until I just couldn't anymore.
[00:03:14] And it kind of stopped me in my tracks that my life as I knew it.
[00:03:19] So it was at that point where I just started to begin the health journey
[00:03:24] with the medical side of things.
[00:03:27] And that, you know, was interesting because I was shuffled around from,
[00:03:32] you know, all the different neurologists, a cardiologist, a pulmonologist,
[00:03:36] anachronologist, I went to many different COVID recovery programs.
[00:03:41] I went all the way down to Mount Sinai and I live in Boston just to check out theirs.
[00:03:45] Maybe theirs was a little bit, you know, I thought they could find something.
[00:03:49] And there was just a lot more battery of tests, a lot more concerning symptoms,
[00:03:54] tests that could go even further.
[00:03:55] So I found that I had microclots and, you know, MCAS and small fiber neuropathy.
[00:04:01] And all these things that I really didn't like the sound of.
[00:04:04] And I wasn't sure, you know, how much and was even told kind of that they didn't
[00:04:08] know if I was going to get better.
[00:04:10] And I believe took all that in and just got so fearful.
[00:04:15] And I just didn't know what to do.
[00:04:17] And the uncertainty of everything and the hopelessness and the victimhood
[00:04:21] I was in, I was just like, oh, why me?
[00:04:24] How did I get to be the, you know, 10 percent of the population
[00:04:27] that seems to be affected?
[00:04:29] And I was kind of in shame, too, that I was thinking like, I eat really well.
[00:04:34] Like I exercise, like how did this happen?
[00:04:36] And I didn't realize that it can, you know, it affects everybody equally.
[00:04:40] It's an equalizer.
[00:04:41] But at the time I didn't tell anybody that this was probable along COVID
[00:04:46] because I just, I don't know, I just wasn't able to really even admit it to myself.
[00:04:53] So I had to go through all those stages of grief when it was actually
[00:04:57] coming out that it was really looking like there's something called long COVID.
[00:05:01] And so that meant trying to explain to people that there was something that,
[00:05:07] you know, that was affecting my, my heart and my brain
[00:05:11] and why I wasn't showing up for anything.
[00:05:13] So I decided to sort of have to admit to myself that there was a problem
[00:05:17] and that was very, very, very hard.
[00:05:19] And just the acceptance of what was going on and the losses that were happening,
[00:05:24] you know, missing out on so many things.
[00:05:27] My tennis team went out without me and I was the captain.
[00:05:30] I'm like, how can they keep going and just my work, you know, couldn't work.
[00:05:34] So with that kept going.
[00:05:36] And, you know, the losses, especially with physical things that I used to do,
[00:05:42] it was really hard because it was also my social.
[00:05:44] And so the isolation was really starting to creep in.
[00:05:47] I didn't know what was going on or how to remedy it
[00:05:50] because the medical system hadn't come up with any pill or cure and kept waiting.
[00:05:54] I'm like, OK, they came up with a shot in like a year.
[00:05:57] Like this has got to be, you know, this has got to be something that's coming.
[00:06:01] But as the time grew on, you know, it wasn't happening.
[00:06:07] And the fact that even with all the tests, a lot of them were coming back normal.
[00:06:11] And I just thought, no, it can't be normal.
[00:06:14] Like and, you know, the doctors are looking at me like I'm crazy
[00:06:17] because I've got them saying that I have all this heart rate and breathlessness.
[00:06:22] And but then there weren't finding anything wrong with my heart or my pulmonary function.
[00:06:28] So then I was starting to second guess myself.
[00:06:30] Like, is it me or is it just this terrible anxiety or something else going on?
[00:06:36] Is there a mental health thing that, you know, I need to address too?
[00:06:39] So it was felt like your hit from all ends with this
[00:06:42] and especially because nobody really understood.
[00:06:45] And I didn't know anybody with long COVID either.
[00:06:48] So I just was felt really, really alone and confused.
[00:06:52] But, you know, I had to give up my gym membership, say no to winnings,
[00:06:56] family gathering and really try to do all the exploratory treatments.
[00:07:02] I thought, OK, I'm going to just get this.
[00:07:03] I'm going to problem solve.
[00:07:04] I'm going to find all of these around the world.
[00:07:06] Some of them a little bit on the dangerous side.
[00:07:10] But I did because I was so desperate, I tried to problem solve
[00:07:13] my way out of this or do as many experimental treatments as I could.
[00:07:17] A lot of antivirals, you know, for the spike proteins.
[00:07:21] I was I was told I had mitochondria dysfunction.
[00:07:24] And so I did a lot of tests on that and niacin, all these different ones.
[00:07:28] But nothing, none of them did even move the needle at all on my recovery.
[00:07:33] So guess I would say that it was a year and a half into these symptoms
[00:07:40] and these debilitating symptoms.
[00:07:43] And my mental health is taking a big turn for the worse
[00:07:47] because I don't see a way out of this or, you know, out of even my bed.
[00:07:52] And so in my, you know, the active life I used to have.
[00:07:56] So it was just really interesting.
[00:07:59] One night I woke up and I was in a full swick and that happened a lot.
[00:08:03] You know, I had really bad temperature dysregulation.
[00:08:06] So like that wasn't that surprising or not being able to sleep that much
[00:08:10] because, you know, not being able to sleep was a huge problem and symptom.
[00:08:14] But this time there was a lot of hopelessness, which I usually experienced
[00:08:20] and anxiety, but then there was also this voice that said,
[00:08:24] but you're not doing it.
[00:08:25] Maybe your mindset is where you should look at.
[00:08:30] And I was like, I don't know if it was, you know, some sort of, I don't know.
[00:08:33] There's some, you know, speaking to me.
[00:08:35] But it felt like something in my head was just telling me
[00:08:38] that I might be going about this in a, you know, way.
[00:08:43] Because I was that with point when I woke up the next day that I was like,
[00:08:46] what if I believe that maybe I can get better instead of every day
[00:08:51] saying to myself, there's no chance, you know, and I'm hopeless and I'm a victim.
[00:08:56] And really was the turning point in my now took another year and a half
[00:09:01] to get fully recovered, but it was a start, you know,
[00:09:05] just changing my frame of mind to, you know, there's no hope.
[00:09:10] There's no way I can get better to what if I did and what would that look like?
[00:09:15] So I planted the seed of belief and then, you know, I found, oh, my gosh,
[00:09:20] all of a sudden these synchronicities were happening now.
[00:09:22] Someone gave me the mind body prescription by John Sarno.
[00:09:27] I started reading the way out.
[00:09:29] I started following Oh, railings channel.
[00:09:32] If I had known about you, I followed you, but I didn't.
[00:09:35] And then I saw, oh, my gosh, people are recovering.
[00:09:37] There's a few people.
[00:09:38] And then I thought they're in my world and a world I never thought I'd be in.
[00:09:42] And everything kept snowballing to the point where I started to feel like
[00:09:48] if I follow this pain reprocessing therapy stuff, if I keep believing
[00:09:54] that visualizing that I can get better, you know, see it in the athletes
[00:09:58] all the time right now with them, the Olympics, that maybe, you know,
[00:10:01] follow this path to a way out and to use Alan Gordon's words.
[00:10:06] And and I did slowly, but surely kept looking at how I was responding to things.
[00:10:13] Oh, one thing also that helped is that I had just completed
[00:10:16] a NBSR mindfulness based stress reduction program.
[00:10:20] And so thank goodness I had some tools to emotionally regulate
[00:10:24] because I had no idea how much my nervous system was involved with this whole thing.
[00:10:29] I didn't even know I was in fight or flight 24 seven.
[00:10:32] You know, first thought that was my standard, like what I ran on.
[00:10:35] And it turns out it kind of was before that I realized all of this.
[00:10:39] So bringing that back down to a baseline and, you know, doing
[00:10:43] bringing my body back to safety instead of that alarm that was on saying,
[00:10:46] oh, no, you're in really big trouble.
[00:10:48] And instead saying, you're going to be OK, you know, that this
[00:10:53] symptom can be here and it can be safe once I realize that really
[00:10:57] what the doctors were saying about I used to get so mad when the doctors would say
[00:11:01] there's nothing wrong in the scans.
[00:11:03] And I was like, you're going to let me go back on the streets with these symptoms.
[00:11:07] And it turns out that I was so grateful that there was nothing else going on
[00:11:12] in my secondary problem that it was my nervous system and brain working together.
[00:11:19] So all my symptoms were real that I was feeling and experiencing.
[00:11:22] And they were very, very difficult.
[00:11:24] It's just that they weren't caused by a structural issue.
[00:11:27] They were caused by, you know, a pain, fear cycle that I'd gotten myself into.
[00:11:32] And I really needed to learn that my cure was not going to come externally.
[00:11:38] I wanted it to.
[00:11:39] I wanted someone to hand me the golden pill, but actually it took time
[00:11:43] of me settling myself, getting my nervous system regulated, really working
[00:11:48] with my brain and what I could do to kind of rewire it to safety
[00:11:52] instead of constant fear.
[00:11:55] So that's that's pretty much how this all happened.
[00:11:58] That night is fascinating.
[00:12:00] That that turn on of, wait, maybe I'm missing something.
[00:12:05] I love that. That's really interesting.
[00:12:07] Obviously, there was something within you that was really called to do this or heal
[00:12:13] in that way, but then also come at it and do this work that you're doing.
[00:12:17] I mean, that was a lot of us go through it.
[00:12:18] And now we can say, wow, we learned so much and actually can be grateful
[00:12:22] for the journey, but it takes some time to get there.
[00:12:24] Right. And I see that trajectory for you.
[00:12:27] I want to back up a little bit into what you were told.
[00:12:29] I think it's important for people to resonate with this.
[00:12:32] What were you actually told or were you told what was wrong?
[00:12:37] Yeah, I was told that there that there were structural issues.
[00:12:41] I mean, in 2021, I was told that the virus was hiding somewhere in my body.
[00:12:47] They just couldn't find it.
[00:12:48] Like it was either my stomach in the gut lining, maybe in my brain,
[00:12:52] which was scary. I'm like, oh, my virus in my brain.
[00:12:55] And, you know, or somewhere else where I'm like, well, then where does it hide?
[00:12:59] And I don't understand why your antivirals aren't finding it, you know?
[00:13:03] And I just kept asking questions after they would tell me that was what it was.
[00:13:07] You know, the gut lining, it kind of made sense.
[00:13:09] Things can get trapped in there.
[00:13:11] So I thought, OK, and I did a whole overhaul of that, you know,
[00:13:14] changed my diet, went on all these anti-inflammatory diets.
[00:13:17] You know, of course, I was told it was a systemic inflammation.
[00:13:20] Sure did feel like it.
[00:13:22] I was had pain from head to toe.
[00:13:24] I mean, I felt like the tin man who needed oil every morning.
[00:13:28] It was just so hard.
[00:13:30] And so but you know what really helped me with that was actually movement.
[00:13:34] Because I was just like, I can't do anything.
[00:13:36] The doctors told me to rest and to, you know, not move.
[00:13:41] Meanwhile, what I've learned so much is that our body needs energy to move.
[00:13:45] We need to get the circulation going, you know, the things with the vagus
[00:13:49] nerve and lymph lymphatic drainage.
[00:13:52] So but I was told, yes, that the best thing to do was to sit and lay down
[00:13:57] and rest, rest, rest as much as I could because I had to conserve the member.
[00:14:01] They would talk a lot about the energy envelope, which I still, you know,
[00:14:05] think is important, but it was very extreme.
[00:14:08] Don't go exercise.
[00:14:09] Don't go to see a PT.
[00:14:11] This is 2021.
[00:14:12] It got a little changed over that.
[00:14:14] And then I did do that.
[00:14:15] And I was gone in the other side because I did too much.
[00:14:17] But at the time, yeah, try not to do as much.
[00:14:20] And, you know, and there's a chance that all my organs are being destroyed.
[00:14:25] And that was really scary to hear that because I'm like, I said, from the inside out.
[00:14:30] And they're like, yeah.
[00:14:30] So these are, you know, the different doctors and professionals.
[00:14:33] And I, and I believed them because I always believe my doctors.
[00:14:37] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:14:38] It's scary.
[00:14:39] That's really scary to hear those things.
[00:14:43] And also to hear you talk about yourself being really negative in the victim place.
[00:14:48] It's interesting because I do not see that energy about you now.
[00:14:51] Obviously you've done a lot of work.
[00:14:54] But can you share that transition from the victim place hopelessness to where you are now?
[00:15:00] Yeah, that was the hardest part of any symptom I had in this whole illness syndrome,
[00:15:06] whatever you want to call it, condition was I never experienced depressive thoughts
[00:15:12] like I did with this, mainly because I felt like I had zero control over what was happening.
[00:15:18] I felt like I was being told, you know, I had this thing with no end.
[00:15:23] And I just saw my future is completely bleak, you know, I've got three children
[00:15:27] and I couldn't show up for them the way I used to.
[00:15:30] And I was kind of like the athlete in the family.
[00:15:32] And so we had so much one, you know, and see me lying there just over my work.
[00:15:37] And then I felt like somebody who was not even projective in society.
[00:15:41] So it made me feel so badly that what was I there for just to lie in bed?
[00:15:47] You know, it just there were so many things that caused depression,
[00:15:50] depression that I never felt like I was in a well at the bottom and I could not
[00:15:55] climb my way out. That's how I felt.
[00:15:58] And then I learned, you know, a lot more once I could finally read again,
[00:16:01] because I couldn't read for a good nine months, read or write and I'm a writer.
[00:16:06] I couldn't even read my own books.
[00:16:08] So it was just like what is happening?
[00:16:10] There was so much cognitive dysfunction.
[00:16:12] And at the time, you know, you're saying, what did they say?
[00:16:15] They said that could be permanent, too.
[00:16:17] And I was just like, I'm a writer.
[00:16:19] And so it was like my whole livelihood was, you know, and so.
[00:16:22] But then we're on things were starting to come back.
[00:16:25] I went to speech. I went to cognitive therapy.
[00:16:27] And I started to chunk and learn all over again how to do that.
[00:16:32] And it all, thank goodness, came back.
[00:16:34] Plus calming the nervous system so that my prefrontal cortex wasn't offline
[00:16:39] all the time so I could actually focus, take in things better.
[00:16:43] You know, but you're saying, well, like when that, when I started to realize
[00:16:48] that maybe I was going about this the wrong way and read more about neuroscience,
[00:16:53] I was realizing that what I was constantly focusing on, which was despair,
[00:16:59] which was not being able to get better, which was on, you know,
[00:17:04] being in this really sad place, that is what I kept getting.
[00:17:10] I mean, I kept getting more, you know, hopeless things that would happen.
[00:17:13] Another bad test or another doctor that disappointed me or, you know,
[00:17:17] one that said maybe it's just anxiety or something like that.
[00:17:21] You know, was when I started to plant that seed of belief that maybe I could
[00:17:25] get better, but I started seeing little bits and, you know,
[00:17:28] I'd even see like a bird outside and be like, OK, that's kind of beautiful.
[00:17:33] You know, whereas before I was just like, a bird, you know,
[00:17:35] what are you doing in my presence when I'm so upset?
[00:17:39] Like, how are you even flying right now?
[00:17:41] And so I started to look at the little glimmers around me and realize the paradox
[00:17:47] of I could still be really feeling uncomfortable, but I also at the same
[00:17:52] time could enjoy some of the things that I used to enjoy and that elevated
[00:17:56] my mood and I started to feel a little bit better.
[00:17:59] I couldn't believe it, you know.
[00:18:01] And so I pulled myself out of that well by these little micro moments.
[00:18:05] Maybe my daughter came and laid, you know, with me, you know,
[00:18:09] and had some tears or something, or, you know, I was able to sit outside
[00:18:14] in the sun for a few minutes or took a shower, which was a major feat,
[00:18:18] you know, and started to celebrate those little moments.
[00:18:21] And when I saw even micro, which I honestly think a slug improves faster
[00:18:26] than it seemed like this, I didn't recovery.
[00:18:29] But when I saw a little bit or if someone would come and say, you know,
[00:18:32] I see that you have just a little more vitality.
[00:18:36] I had hope just brought me to the next.
[00:18:38] And then I did also when I was in my bed, not able to do anything.
[00:18:42] When I had that little mindset shift, I brought in visualization like crazy.
[00:18:46] It didn't matter if I could not get up that day, except to go to the bathroom
[00:18:50] and back, I would visualize myself on my mountain bike again,
[00:18:54] having the best time or skiing or playing tennis again or going for a mountain
[00:19:01] hike and just vividly imagine what it smelled like, what it felt like, what I was seeing.
[00:19:07] And it gave me so much of this, if you think about it,
[00:19:11] you know, with hormones that was like the dopamine I needed or the serotonin.
[00:19:16] You know, the hugs were the oxytocin.
[00:19:18] And so all of those were just really changing my biochemistry.
[00:19:22] And those are the things I realized, oh, my gosh, you can do for yourself.
[00:19:26] You can self heal by changing your mindset, letting in those good hormones
[00:19:33] instead of the stress hormones that I was constantly.
[00:19:35] I can change my thoughts a little bit.
[00:19:37] And I'm not saying toxic positivity either.
[00:19:40] It was just a tiny little switching of the station.
[00:19:43] You know, like if this is a radio and I was on the worry station,
[00:19:47] once I noticed that, I'd be like, mm-hmm, OK, yep, there I am.
[00:19:50] You know, and that makes sense for what I'm going through.
[00:19:53] But what happens if I change this to a lighter station?
[00:19:57] You know, maybe there's just or maybe soft jazz, you know,
[00:20:01] something that was just a little bit less,
[00:20:04] you know, terrifying and just more helpful to my recovery and to my nervous system.
[00:20:10] Yeah, I mean, as we know, and as I talk about this, you talk about this.
[00:20:14] Sometimes mindset shifting, sometimes that term can get a little like roll your
[00:20:18] eyes, like how much is mindset really going to do?
[00:20:20] But those shifts that you just talked about, that is the brain training.
[00:20:24] Sometimes people also think brain training is like this complicated thing.
[00:20:27] You have to figure out how to do.
[00:20:29] It's it's exactly what you just talked about.
[00:20:31] You're retraining those neural pathways that brought you into the chronic
[00:20:36] state of stress and your body and out of it.
[00:20:38] So I love that trajectory, especially that you really named in the beginning.
[00:20:41] I was in complete victim mode, hopelessness mode and realize that was
[00:20:45] actually making me more sick.
[00:20:47] So those were the things I just say that when I also got COVID that you're
[00:20:53] right, my nervous system was already at a max.
[00:20:55] And so I just want to ask you about before.
[00:20:58] Yes. Oh, oh, and, you know, just even growing up, you know,
[00:21:03] IBS before playing sports, bad stomach didn't even know that the mind and body
[00:21:09] were together. I just had a stomach.
[00:21:11] My mother was always taking me to the doctor for a bad, you know, stomach
[00:21:15] or if there was a big test coming up really bad stomach, sometimes got dizzy
[00:21:20] with a test because I didn't think I was smart enough, didn't think I could do this.
[00:21:24] So I didn't realize again, the mind, body connection, which I had and I wish
[00:21:29] someone had told me and then in college I got TMJ, which again, you know,
[00:21:33] it's like that clenching of your jaw.
[00:21:35] And I know now that it was because again, I didn't feel as though I probably,
[00:21:41] you know, that I was good enough to be, you know,
[00:21:44] more smart enough or worthy enough to be in college and didn't think I didn't
[00:21:49] have enough self confidence that I could do it.
[00:21:52] So my body instead, you know, really was trying to protect me from those feelings,
[00:21:58] which were, you know, very sad feeling when you think about it, you know,
[00:22:02] and it turned out to be a limiting belief.
[00:22:03] But but yeah, that, you know, that, that, that it was there.
[00:22:07] So I had these things building up, I think, in me and I realized I had,
[00:22:11] you know, like a lot of the people in the mind, body, world, even Dr.
[00:22:14] Shubin or Dr. Clark, they all say they had some things that were building before.
[00:22:19] And then it's in really interesting because a lot of people ask, like, well,
[00:22:23] why, what was different about this virus than some of the other ones?
[00:22:27] And why is this not such a, you know, and I'm not exactly sure what the answer
[00:22:31] to that is. I know that it hit my system hard and I was already in a place.
[00:22:35] I mean, Christmas time's already like, I think the highest stress time of the year.
[00:22:39] And then I was, yeah, hosting a lot of people and there was just some things,
[00:22:43] anxiety going on. Oh my gosh, what am I saying?
[00:22:45] It was the pandemic. It was only 2021.
[00:22:48] So it was a full year that counts the mortality rate was just going and going.
[00:22:53] And, you know, that was the whole thing, I think, was what that's probably the
[00:22:58] difference between a lot of the other things that, you know,
[00:23:01] other type of flus that have happened. This shut down the world.
[00:23:04] This we all saw published, you know, on every news station.
[00:23:09] We couldn't even see our neighbors.
[00:23:10] We couldn't get food, you know, so I think that that's what added to the fear.
[00:23:15] And when I got it, it was like, and so I think that turned, you know,
[00:23:18] kept the alarm when plus I know I had those circuits already kind of ready for that.
[00:23:23] So, yeah, so it was kind of like a pot or a tea kettle ready to go over explode.
[00:23:31] So you mentioned having from when you got COVID about a year and a half
[00:23:36] till you found my body work.
[00:23:38] Yes. Is that right?
[00:23:39] OK. Yes.
[00:23:40] What is what did that recovery till today?
[00:23:43] Like, what did that look like for you?
[00:23:44] What is that timeline and how do you call it?
[00:23:47] Essentially, oh, you know, recovery is such an interesting word, too.
[00:23:52] And I'm sure you feel the same way.
[00:23:54] I'm recovered from chronic symptoms and, you know, chronic anxiety, all this stuff.
[00:24:00] But there might be something that hits because it's never going to end,
[00:24:03] you know, the stressors in our lives.
[00:24:05] And so because I'm already so sensitive to the mind, body work,
[00:24:10] that things, you know, I can still feel a symptom coming on.
[00:24:13] The difference is I'm like, there it is.
[00:24:15] And oftentimes I'll look right away of where's the pattern behind it?
[00:24:19] You know, where's an old pattern coming in?
[00:24:21] And where's the emotion underneath that?
[00:24:23] I'll start to look at the emotion or what the pattern is more than I don't
[00:24:29] even care about the physical symptom of it, you know, because I felt every
[00:24:33] physical symptom there is.
[00:24:34] And so now I really don't get bothered by that as much.
[00:24:37] It was more like what's happening underneath.
[00:24:40] And so what could last three weeks to three months will last probably 24 hours
[00:24:46] because I'm really taking time to meet my body where I am.
[00:24:51] If it needs rest, well, I rest now.
[00:24:52] I'm not in like, oh, I have to rest, you know, and I used to get scared of
[00:24:57] fatigue and I can see why people with chronic fatigue do, too, because it's
[00:25:00] like you shouldn't be tired is everything that you hear.
[00:25:03] Or it's even I I've had it find it fearful because it meant something maybe
[00:25:09] was really wrong or that whole thing about shame.
[00:25:12] I couldn't I shouldn't be resting.
[00:25:14] You know, I should be out pushing through this.
[00:25:17] Fatigue for me didn't just mean I was tired.
[00:25:20] If I had just listened to it and rested, there would be no problem.
[00:25:23] Like remember in, you know, I remember my early 30s, you know,
[00:25:27] just having kids. I'm like, I am beat.
[00:25:29] I am when they're resting.
[00:25:30] I'm taking a nap, too.
[00:25:32] I never had any problem with it.
[00:25:34] But suddenly with a chronic illness, rest seem like, you know,
[00:25:39] oh, I'm doing so much self care when really I was it's taking care of the
[00:25:43] symptom that was there.
[00:25:45] So I've just kind of really looked at related to things in a whole new way.
[00:25:49] Fear, my symptoms, anxiety, you know, just kind of looking at them and
[00:25:55] having more of a lighthearted look at things, not being so black and white.
[00:26:00] I used to think everything was high stakes.
[00:26:02] And I mean, like everything, but I didn't have the correct, you know,
[00:26:06] lunch for my right kid. Oh, you know, and, you know, I just didn't really roll
[00:26:10] with punches or ride the waves as John Kabat-Zinn says, you know,
[00:26:14] I was crashed by a lot of them.
[00:26:16] But now a lot of that has changed.
[00:26:17] I'm just so much more, you know, first of all, of course,
[00:26:20] I'm the most grateful person in the world that I feel better.
[00:26:23] But also I just realized so many things don't matter as much.
[00:26:27] And so my nervous system just really wants to feel safe and balanced.
[00:26:31] That's my number one priority.
[00:26:33] Yeah, that's a lot more.
[00:26:35] I feel like we don't talk about what it actually looks like to be in recovery.
[00:26:40] What is recovery? Right?
[00:26:41] It looked like that's what I wanted to know.
[00:26:42] Because I it's, oh, no, you did, you did.
[00:26:45] Yeah. No, that was helpful to understand.
[00:26:47] Like, what does that look like now?
[00:26:48] Some people think when they first, I don't know about you,
[00:26:51] but when I first learned about this work and then I actually got better,
[00:26:54] I was like, I'm good. OK, cool.
[00:26:56] And then it was my early days where I didn't really understand everything.
[00:26:59] And then I got to the point where I had symptoms again.
[00:27:01] And I'm like, no, what am I doing wrong?
[00:27:03] Well, you know, I didn't understand the nuance of it and that this is a human
[00:27:08] experience, but it doesn't really, yeah.
[00:27:11] And I'm not going to say sometimes I try to do everything perfectly.
[00:27:15] Like I was following these books the way out and I'm like, OK,
[00:27:18] this time I'm going to do this.
[00:27:19] And this time at 12 to one, I was like, wow, I'm doing everything perfectly.
[00:27:24] And, you know, oh, perfectionist tendency or achieving was coming up.
[00:27:28] I put pressure on myself, especially when I really wanted to go to something
[00:27:35] like a trip I had planned or a wedding or something.
[00:27:38] And, you know, I'm like, I've got to be better by this time.
[00:27:41] Or, you know, my birthday or this next year for the Christmas, you know,
[00:27:45] like, because it was so long.
[00:27:46] I kept looking for dates and every time that date came and I wasn't where I wanted
[00:27:51] to be, oh, my gosh, the suffering that went along with it.
[00:27:55] So I tried to say, well, if I meet myself where I am and I just am so happy
[00:28:00] with the little steps that are happening, can I, it's not easy,
[00:28:04] let go of outcomes a little bit, just try and be with be happy with this
[00:28:10] progress that I'm making, you know, and people relate that to like the game
[00:28:14] of shoots and ladders, you know, you might be going up that ladder
[00:28:19] and then suddenly, no.
[00:28:22] But even if you go all the way back to, you know, square two,
[00:28:25] it doesn't mean you've lost the game.
[00:28:27] It just means that, you know, that you can keep going.
[00:28:31] And I think consistency and practice, it doesn't matter when.
[00:28:34] Sometimes creating neural pathways for me just meant taking a breath
[00:28:40] or stopping when I was walking to let my heart settle.
[00:28:44] It wasn't a major practice that I was doing.
[00:28:47] It was just kind of more mindfulness, you know, like, can I just stay in this
[00:28:52] present moment and not let myself go drift into the past or worry so much
[00:28:57] about the future, you know, it was coming back to what I can really have.
[00:29:02] And then choice to had it.
[00:29:04] I realized I had a choice of what I was even letting my mind entertain.
[00:29:09] And if I was going to go, you know, and all these thoughts are coming in
[00:29:12] with negativity or I'd see a study and I'd be like, no,
[00:29:16] long COVID study, which everyone kept wanting to send me.
[00:29:18] And half of them were like 40 people in it, you know, so small studies or they
[00:29:22] weren't conclusive, but in my mind, with my amygdala that was like looking for,
[00:29:27] you know, so hyper sensitive to news, you know, when I realized that,
[00:29:33] I would be like, you know, first of all, I might not be in that population.
[00:29:37] It's a very new study.
[00:29:39] So I really had to re-talk to my brain and really sue that and say, you know,
[00:29:44] this doesn't mean that I'm not going to keep getting better.
[00:29:48] Yeah.
[00:29:49] And then I kept watching recovery stories like yours and, you know,
[00:29:52] and rail ends and say like, I see people getting better.
[00:29:55] Why can't that be me?
[00:29:57] You know, at first I started watching them and I was so mad at everyone.
[00:30:00] I was like, well, goodness gracious.
[00:30:02] And then I started copying the things like Jackie Baxter.
[00:30:05] I remember I'm like, I'm going to coal plunge because she coal plunge up in
[00:30:08] wherever the heck she is Scotland and other people.
[00:30:12] But that didn't even work for me because that was their own path.
[00:30:15] It's really individualized by what your nervous system wants, what feels good
[00:30:20] for it, what makes it feel safe and then doing it, you know,
[00:30:23] consistently and all these little things that we're doing, that is going
[00:30:28] in a new direction.
[00:30:29] So I thought it had to be something formal, but it actually doesn't.
[00:30:32] Anything that made me feel a little safer, you know, help.
[00:30:36] I had really bad M pass, you know, and when to get that checked and, you know,
[00:30:42] did the histamine diet, did the big one blockers or whatever they're called.
[00:30:47] This really might have some tolerance in the medicine.
[00:30:50] So it made me feel worse.
[00:30:51] And, you know, finally, it was like a combination.
[00:30:54] I think of a few things that helped, but it was my body too.
[00:30:58] I literally would look at a food and try and, you know,
[00:31:02] do some diaphragmatic breathing and say, this is going to be safe stuff.
[00:31:06] This is going to be safe, you know, because I never had any of these.
[00:31:10] I mean, it'd be like an apple and all of a sudden I'm breaking out, you know,
[00:31:13] and having some hard time breathing.
[00:31:15] So it was like, I knew that this could not be, you know, I couldn't suddenly
[00:31:20] be allergic to or, you know, maybe you can, but I knew it was a hyper response.
[00:31:25] And I knew that, yeah, all the other things that were hyper responses,
[00:31:29] I was able to, you know, really calm down by doing the breathing and by talking
[00:31:34] to my brain and saying, an apple isn't unsafe.
[00:31:38] So then I would just take the littlest bite.
[00:31:41] And actually, even before I do that,
[00:31:43] I'd probably visualize myself eating it with no problems at all.
[00:31:46] And just being like really enjoying it.
[00:31:48] Oh, my God, apples are so good.
[00:31:50] And then taking that tiny little bite, you know, waiting six, twelve hours,
[00:31:54] you know, to see and and, you know, that was that a corrective experience.
[00:31:58] Every time I didn't get a hive or anything, I was like, yeah, it's a way to go body.
[00:32:02] And I did that very slightly to include foods back.
[00:32:06] And so, you know, we're a little more successful than others,
[00:32:08] because I think fear would creep in.
[00:32:10] I had a little, you know, hypervigilance going like picking everywhere for hives or
[00:32:14] something, but on the whole, you know, when I started to get more confident
[00:32:18] with it, that was a way out of MCAS for me.
[00:32:22] I wanted to hear that because MCAS is confusing for people sometimes, right?
[00:32:27] And there's a lot of like identity built up around I have MCAS and this is real.
[00:32:31] And this is true. And yes, a hundred percent, it's real, right?
[00:32:34] And also, yes, it's my body and especially foods,
[00:32:37] sensitivities I talk a lot about on here.
[00:32:39] So people know that it's my body, but it's helpful to hear, right?
[00:32:43] That that was your process and that's how you can help yourself.
[00:32:47] Yeah, I mean, before, so it was just so interesting and fearful.
[00:32:51] I mean, I knew it was all fear, like I was starting to fear everything,
[00:32:53] fear every food, everywhere.
[00:32:55] And then being glad that everyone can eat what they want.
[00:32:57] And I'm just like, OK, I can eat three safe foods, you know?
[00:33:00] But then I realized even this word safe food, I'm like, OK,
[00:33:04] when I started to read more about my body, I'm like, why am I saying that safe?
[00:33:07] But that's everything else is danger.
[00:33:09] And so that was my first clue that maybe that was neuroplastic,
[00:33:12] because I wouldn't be putting them in different categories saying that my
[00:33:15] symptoms. So I was like, let me just try this.
[00:33:18] And, you know, because when you go to the mass cell activation doctors
[00:33:22] and they talk about that, it can seem pretty permanent, very structural.
[00:33:27] You know, and I was sure that COVID gave me, you know, now MCAS,
[00:33:31] along with the other myriad of symptoms that were happening.
[00:33:35] So I just, you know, I didn't know that it could be.
[00:33:37] But you're right.
[00:33:38] I love the way you're bringing this to people's attention, that even
[00:33:41] something that's, you know, in the same with POTS.
[00:33:43] I mean, you know, POTS, I was told, like, you're not going to be able
[00:33:47] to get, you know, through that, except for maintenance.
[00:33:51] I'm completely, I don't have any of that anymore.
[00:33:54] And so the thing that I just want to tell people is every single one of the
[00:33:58] symptoms, you know, whether it was the small fire of Burton, neuropathy,
[00:34:03] damaged endothelial cells, dysfunctional mitochondria, migraines, even
[00:34:09] all of those have been, never thought that was going to be possible.
[00:34:15] Yes.
[00:34:16] Thank you for saying that.
[00:34:17] That is so huge.
[00:34:18] Those are, they're big diagnoses, syndromes, terms, right?
[00:34:23] Long COVID, MCAS POTS, they're scary.
[00:34:25] They can be really big.
[00:34:27] And also bringing it back to the micromoments, the micromoments
[00:34:31] shifting your state of being, your mindset, your body, your awareness
[00:34:36] over and over and over again.
[00:34:37] That's what creates that safety, which eliminates the symptoms.
[00:34:41] So your story is a wonderful story to really hone in on, like, yeah,
[00:34:44] these were very real, very real in your body.
[00:34:46] And you, you don't experience them anymore.
[00:34:50] Yeah.
[00:34:51] In Greece, if I can just say one more thing, it's just that I just, I see
[00:34:55] why people are in the medical system.
[00:34:56] I was too, for a very long time, you know, and this is 2021.
[00:35:02] And now we're in 2026.
[00:35:05] And I just want to say that this is growing this mind body field.
[00:35:09] So instead of having a year and a half that, you know, that you go
[00:35:12] to these places and you get shuffled around.
[00:35:14] If you're not finding anybody out there is listening.
[00:35:17] If you're not getting an improvement from the medical system, please
[00:35:23] pick up the way out by Alan Gordon or unlearn your pain by Howard
[00:35:27] Schubertner or contact somebody like you who has been through this.
[00:35:31] And just see, or, you know, Raylan's channel, just see that
[00:35:35] because you have nothing to lose.
[00:35:37] There's no side effects to this mind body work.
[00:35:40] No, if anything, you can feel a little bit more, you know, for me,
[00:35:44] it went universal into a lot of the different things that used to be
[00:35:48] fearful of, I'm not fearful of flying anymore, fearful of a dentist.
[00:35:52] So it's really helped in so many ways for me.
[00:35:55] But so I can't see any downside to trying it, except that you
[00:36:00] might possibly, if you can expand your mind to it, sounds weird
[00:36:04] because there isn't a doctor sometimes involved.
[00:36:05] Sometimes there is.
[00:36:06] There's so many doctors in this field that you've interviewed
[00:36:09] them. I've interviewed them, and they used to be fully, you know,
[00:36:13] into just the medical and now they've gone, you know, mind body as
[00:36:17] well. And now they're helping so many people that didn't used to be
[00:36:20] able to help. But if you can expand your mind a little bit to
[00:36:22] this, you can get better and maybe in a shorter term.
[00:36:27] Exactly. It's growing so fast now.
[00:36:30] And it's wonderful because we're all doing the amazing work of
[00:36:32] putting the information out there and helping people understand it.
[00:36:36] Dipping your toes in earlier this morning, I was just
[00:36:38] talking about how this work is not going to hurt you.
[00:36:41] It will only help you in so many ways you didn't even realize or think
[00:36:43] about it will change your mindset, your emotions, your life.
[00:36:47] It'll just change your perception about yourself and life.
[00:36:50] Yeah. I mean, for flying used to just it would be like I would
[00:36:54] think of a plane and I would think of all the things that
[00:36:57] could go wrong. And that was just the way my mind worked.
[00:36:59] And that is that predictive coding.
[00:37:01] And then I started changing it and I started just working
[00:37:05] with visualization of when I fly, gosh, I get to go see people
[00:37:09] that I really care about or I get to see a land that is brand new.
[00:37:12] And now if I have a thought about a plane and it's always
[00:37:15] it's always like something that's really exciting rather than
[00:37:18] something and like I didn't really do anything except change
[00:37:22] my how I related to an airplane.
[00:37:25] And the airplane never changed.
[00:37:26] It was my perception that changed.
[00:37:29] What a difference.
[00:37:29] Now I just look forward to trips.
[00:37:31] Whereas before I would spend weeks, should I go and then having
[00:37:34] to take Xanax on the plane and now I just sit there on the plane
[00:37:37] and I'm like getting so excited for what's going to be on the other end.
[00:37:41] So it's just one little example of how we can change our perception
[00:37:46] that we're changing, not even the same with when you're if you're
[00:37:51] in this trying to get better, I exercise, petrified of exercise.
[00:37:56] I had bad experiences of exercise that pose exertional malaise,
[00:38:01] which I was told was why the reason for it.
[00:38:04] And I believed it was exactly 24 hours after it.
[00:38:07] So I was like, oh, yeah, I got post exertional malaise.
[00:38:10] But when I started to relate to it differently, what if I went
[00:38:14] into this movement, I called it, you know, as like really loose
[00:38:18] and joyful and, you know, not scared?
[00:38:21] Well, then I didn't get the post exertional malaise.
[00:38:24] And why was that?
[00:38:25] Instead, I would be like, yes, I just did that.
[00:38:27] I'm so happy.
[00:38:28] And so it was just again, it's, you know, and so I found
[00:38:31] with activity or exercise, it's really not what I do.
[00:38:33] What I did, it was how I did, you know, if I did it with lightness in
[00:38:37] ease, but if I started to grip or started to worry, it was time
[00:38:40] for me to stop because that was only going to lead to telling
[00:38:43] my brain that I was unsafe and it was going to start the
[00:38:46] cascade of symptoms.
[00:38:48] We do anything is how we do everything.
[00:38:50] I used to, I used to be like, oh, it's so annoying to hear.
[00:38:52] I don't know what to do with that.
[00:38:53] But it's so true, right?
[00:38:55] Your perception, the way you respond to anything outside of
[00:38:58] you, your own body, your own symptoms.
[00:39:00] That's what we learn in this work.
[00:39:01] It's how you respond that changes your experience.
[00:39:04] And that's exactly what you just said.
[00:39:06] So, so are you back to being active, being an athlete, being
[00:39:09] an athlete?
[00:39:10] Amazing.
[00:39:11] And like I said, if I notice, you know, I just climb
[00:39:15] Mount Rainier, I'm like a few months ago with my son.
[00:39:19] And I, you know, I said, all boundaries, guys, if I don't
[00:39:22] feel like I'm going to make it up to the, I'm not going to
[00:39:24] make it.
[00:39:24] And this is, you know, my children, which was hard
[00:39:26] conversation to have because they're like, I would be
[00:39:28] running the thing, you know, and it was 5.5 miles.
[00:39:30] I was like, I just want to set you up before we go that I'm
[00:39:33] going to take it as I, you know, and I'm going to stop
[00:39:36] probably frequently to check in, you know, with how I'm
[00:39:39] doing, but I kept saying the only thing that could
[00:39:42] really stop me.
[00:39:43] I don't have structural problems is me and my, in my,
[00:39:46] you know, my mind.
[00:39:47] And so, because by the way, it had been about, you
[00:39:50] know, three to six months that I was slowly getting
[00:39:52] back into things.
[00:39:53] I didn't just go from bed bound to climbing that.
[00:39:55] That was just a slow, slow, slow and working with a
[00:39:58] really great PT who helped me expand things in that
[00:40:02] way where I'm doing it with ease.
[00:40:04] And they're the ones who taught me that if I tense
[00:40:06] up or if I start to say, I wonder if I'm going to, if
[00:40:08] this is, I'm going to, you know, what did I always say?
[00:40:10] Oh, I wonder if I'm going to, you know, this is going
[00:40:12] to come back to me tomorrow, you know, then it's
[00:40:15] time to stop.
[00:40:15] There might, he would actually just say, you go
[00:40:17] home right now and you, you know, because he was
[00:40:20] just wasn't worth it.
[00:40:20] But I loved that because then it would come back
[00:40:23] the next day and all right, let's do this, you
[00:40:25] know, and I listened to a lot of great music and
[00:40:28] stuff, but with the climb, yeah, I just set a few
[00:40:30] boundaries, took my time when and, and yeah, so I
[00:40:35] can do anything now I can work full time and I
[00:40:38] don't really have any restrictions that I can
[00:40:40] need anything, you know, and so it was
[00:40:42] perception changing and this is how, you
[00:40:46] know, I use a lot of the MBSR work to keep
[00:40:49] myself in this, you know, mode.
[00:40:51] And I really, really, really am aware of when
[00:40:54] an old pattern will come back a perfectionist
[00:40:56] pattern or a striving pattern or a pushing
[00:41:00] pattern and just realize that it's just not
[00:41:03] worth it.
[00:41:03] I am the happiest tennis player out there.
[00:41:06] I don't care if I beat anyone anymore.
[00:41:09] I'm just so happy to be out playing and I'm
[00:41:11] always looking at the day and the person.
[00:41:13] I never, you know, I saw them as like my
[00:41:15] opponent, my enemy.
[00:41:16] Now I'm like, what's up, you know, and so
[00:41:19] it's really changed how I play.
[00:41:21] I still love to play and do my best, but I
[00:41:24] don't have this, I have to win or it's, I'm
[00:41:28] not, you know, worthy or I'm not whatever.
[00:41:30] I just, and I think with sports, it became
[00:41:33] so competitive that, you know, it felt like
[00:41:36] life or death, death, death when really it
[00:41:39] was tennis or, you know, some sport that
[00:41:41] I was doing.
[00:41:42] Yeah, yeah, that's, that's huge because
[00:41:45] you're able to be in it even, even more
[00:41:48] now than probably you did.
[00:41:50] It might look different, but like your
[00:41:52] engagement, how you experience it, I'm
[00:41:54] sure the people around you experience you
[00:41:56] differently.
[00:41:57] My gosh, I know some people wouldn't even
[00:41:59] play with me because I was so competitive
[00:42:02] and I remember my friend would say, either
[00:42:03] way, after this match, even if we lose,
[00:42:05] we're going to go to Starbucks.
[00:42:06] And I'm like, if we lose, we don't deserve
[00:42:09] Starbucks.
[00:42:11] Now you're right, I go out there.
[00:42:12] I'm so much present.
[00:42:13] I don't care about the last time I played.
[00:42:16] I don't care what the score is or
[00:42:17] used to count games to see, you know,
[00:42:19] if I would win and here I am thinking
[00:42:21] about the future.
[00:42:22] So of course I'm missing up in the
[00:42:24] present because I'm all anxious.
[00:42:26] Instead of now, watch the ball.
[00:42:28] Watch, you know, right there or, you
[00:42:30] know, have a friendly conversation or
[00:42:32] enjoy a bird going by whatever it is.
[00:42:34] It's, it's changed in my presence
[00:42:36] with people.
[00:42:37] Oh my goodness, you know, instead of
[00:42:38] being on my phone or whatever I'm
[00:42:40] doing, I'm like, let's just sit and
[00:42:42] talk for a minute.
[00:42:43] And you know, the eye contact, I
[00:42:45] limit the screen time because I had
[00:42:47] to, but now it's so healthy to not
[00:42:49] do that before I go to bed so I can
[00:42:51] sleep better.
[00:42:51] Or first thing in the morning, I
[00:42:52] don't want to start my nervous system
[00:42:54] with all the news.
[00:42:55] And so, yeah, I think I've just
[00:42:57] become so much more mindful and
[00:42:59] of things that will affect me, of
[00:43:01] what I take in, you know, and
[00:43:04] of things that now I can actually,
[00:43:06] you know, project out.
[00:43:07] So so much more compassion for
[00:43:08] people, you know, living.
[00:43:11] Amazing.
[00:43:12] Thank you so much for sharing your
[00:43:14] story is really powerful.
[00:43:15] I know it will help a lot of
[00:43:16] people.
[00:43:16] Is there anything else you feel
[00:43:18] important to share that you haven't
[00:43:19] shared?
[00:43:21] Let's see.
[00:43:22] You know, I guess I, you know, the
[00:43:24] surrender moment for me, it came
[00:43:26] at this nighttime thing.
[00:43:28] You know, and who knows if it was
[00:43:29] a fever that actually caused it
[00:43:31] because it was hot as anything.
[00:43:34] And then also very emotional when
[00:43:36] that happened, you know, just
[00:43:36] like at wood's end, crying and
[00:43:39] whatever.
[00:43:39] But I don't think it always has to
[00:43:41] be so dramatic.
[00:43:42] I think that sometimes it could just
[00:43:44] be a curiosity.
[00:43:47] What if I could recover?
[00:43:49] What would that look like?
[00:43:50] You know, what if I think if it
[00:43:52] could just start with, hmm,
[00:43:55] if I could, you know, if I could
[00:43:57] see myself, you know, doing
[00:43:59] something without these symptoms,
[00:44:01] what would that be?
[00:44:02] And some people find that
[00:44:03] triggering.
[00:44:04] But really, it's all about
[00:44:06] planting what's possible.
[00:44:08] And when, you know, the whole
[00:44:10] neuroscience thing that our brain
[00:44:11] doesn't know the difference
[00:44:12] between what we think in the
[00:44:14] future and what's happening right
[00:44:15] now.
[00:44:16] So when you're thinking about
[00:44:17] seeing yourself, you know,
[00:44:19] with ease, doing something that
[00:44:21] you used to love to do, your
[00:44:23] brain is really telling your
[00:44:24] body like, come, let's come on
[00:44:26] cells, let's go.
[00:44:28] And, you know, your body's
[00:44:28] like, I think I'm receiving the
[00:44:30] message that we could be
[00:44:31] better.
[00:44:31] So let's start working towards
[00:44:33] that so that the mind-body
[00:44:34] connection, you know, it's in
[00:44:36] homeostasis together.
[00:44:37] So I feel like the
[00:44:39] mindset and visualization are
[00:44:41] just so important as well
[00:44:43] as some surrender appointment
[00:44:46] and a point.
[00:44:47] And that doesn't mean, you know,
[00:44:49] resignation means accepting
[00:44:50] where you are and going from
[00:44:52] there, moving forward, letting
[00:44:54] other things go, but that, you
[00:44:56] know, moving ahead.
[00:44:57] The past is in the past.
[00:44:58] But what where are you going
[00:45:00] in the future?
[00:45:02] Yeah, thank you for that.
[00:45:04] You're welcome.
[00:45:05] As mentioned in the beginning
[00:45:06] of the episode,
[00:45:09] you have a community where you
[00:45:11] help people.
[00:45:11] Do you want to share a little
[00:45:12] bit more about that?
[00:45:13] Sure.
[00:45:14] So, you know, the things that I
[00:45:15] really wanted when I was sick
[00:45:17] that I didn't have or didn't
[00:45:19] even know about because no one
[00:45:22] really knew were community.
[00:45:25] And that's why I created that
[00:45:26] because I just wanted someone
[00:45:27] who knew what I was talking
[00:45:28] about and had the same
[00:45:29] emotions and the same feelings.
[00:45:32] And so I wanted to have
[00:45:34] that. I wanted to have
[00:45:35] experts, you know, that's why
[00:45:37] we had you on and all the
[00:45:38] different doctors and people
[00:45:40] that are in this space, because
[00:45:42] I wanted to know what this was
[00:45:43] about. And, you know, when
[00:45:45] reading was really difficult
[00:45:47] and all the brain fog was so
[00:45:48] hard. I just was I kind of was
[00:45:51] getting it, but not really.
[00:45:52] I mean, that that first book
[00:45:54] Dr. Sarno's book was a hard
[00:45:55] to read, you know, very
[00:45:57] technical. And so I wish I
[00:45:59] found maybe the way out,
[00:46:00] which is, you know, funny
[00:46:01] and, you know, a little
[00:46:02] more user friendly than.
[00:46:04] But still, I wanted to know
[00:46:06] and it felt like it
[00:46:07] resonated, but I couldn't
[00:46:08] quite understand it.
[00:46:09] So I wanted experts to come in.
[00:46:10] And that's why we have people
[00:46:12] that come in to my crew,
[00:46:14] what my community is called.
[00:46:16] And then I just wanted to know
[00:46:18] some practices, some tools
[00:46:19] that I could do to regulate.
[00:46:21] And I don't mean to do them
[00:46:22] perfectly like we talked about,
[00:46:24] but just to do when you get
[00:46:26] a stressor or before a doctor's
[00:46:28] appointment so you can even
[00:46:29] express yourself to the doctors
[00:46:31] correctly and they won't say
[00:46:32] anxiety, you know, or
[00:46:34] something, you know.
[00:46:35] And so these are the things
[00:46:37] that I do.
[00:46:38] These are the things I wanted.
[00:46:39] And so this is why when I decided
[00:46:41] I was going to create my own
[00:46:42] program, plus my skills are in
[00:46:43] NBSR work, you know, so
[00:46:46] the breath work is also
[00:46:47] something and then PRT.
[00:46:49] So I just added all of these
[00:46:51] things and we meet every day
[00:46:53] for 30 minutes and do these
[00:46:54] practices, not perfectly,
[00:46:56] but just as we are.
[00:46:58] And then so that people will
[00:46:59] have like a toolkit of things
[00:47:01] that they can have when
[00:47:03] they need them.
[00:47:04] Yeah, it's a beautiful community.
[00:47:06] So thank you for creating it.
[00:47:07] I agree. I didn't have that when
[00:47:08] I started this.
[00:47:09] And actually, my first book was
[00:47:11] the My Body Prescription as well.
[00:47:13] It's funny, I don't often hear
[00:47:14] people. Yeah.
[00:47:15] But that was because
[00:47:17] none of this had ever come out.
[00:47:19] I mean, that wasn't for me.
[00:47:21] I read that in
[00:47:22] 2015, I think.
[00:47:25] Well, oh,
[00:47:27] there was still underground at
[00:47:29] that point.
[00:47:30] I mean, poor Dr.
[00:47:31] Sarno, if anyone could ever, if
[00:47:32] he could see this, what's
[00:47:33] happening now, you know, in
[00:47:34] his lifetime, he was kind of
[00:47:36] people were just trying to get
[00:47:38] you on the other doctors like,
[00:47:39] no, but look how many people
[00:47:41] he hopes with back pain.
[00:47:43] And he knew that it was
[00:47:46] going to, you know, kind of blow
[00:47:47] up to other things besides
[00:47:49] black pain, back pain, besides
[00:47:50] chronic pain, that there were
[00:47:51] going to be post viral
[00:47:52] syndromes. We're this also.
[00:47:55] I mean, the guy was incredible
[00:47:57] and a genius. I wish I had known
[00:47:58] him like a lot of people in
[00:47:59] the Colisex, a lot of people
[00:48:00] got to, you know, meet him.
[00:48:02] But we didn't.
[00:48:03] But I certainly am so
[00:48:05] appreciative of his wisdom.
[00:48:08] And the one thing I just left
[00:48:09] out is that the joy, that's all
[00:48:11] is that getting, you know, one
[00:48:12] thing of the last day of my
[00:48:14] program, Feel Good Friday, is
[00:48:16] when we actually don't even
[00:48:17] talk about anything about our
[00:48:18] symptoms. We meet with
[00:48:20] somebody one-on-one, I've
[00:48:21] recovered buddies, but we have a
[00:48:23] funny, you know, like a would
[00:48:24] you ever type talk or, you
[00:48:26] know, would you rather be on
[00:48:28] the planet, you know, whatever
[00:48:29] Neptune or you can see.
[00:48:31] And then we just do laughter
[00:48:32] yoga and we just do things
[00:48:34] that boost our connection
[00:48:36] with each other and boost our
[00:48:38] mood so that because, you know,
[00:48:40] in doing that, we boost our
[00:48:41] immune system, we send all
[00:48:43] that oxytocin around and I
[00:48:46] just feel like joy and that
[00:48:48] feel better feeling in, you
[00:48:49] know, is so helpful to love
[00:48:51] that. Yes, we forget to add
[00:48:52] that up. That's the bucket we
[00:48:53] have got to fill up. We're
[00:48:55] not just reducing all the
[00:48:56] negative things or the
[00:48:57] symptoms that don't feel
[00:48:58] good negative mindset.
[00:49:00] I don't even really like to
[00:49:01] say the word negative. It's
[00:49:02] just beliefs that have been
[00:49:03] built up as protective
[00:49:04] mechanisms, right? But like,
[00:49:06] we've got to build up that
[00:49:07] positive, that joy, that
[00:49:09] connection, gratitude.
[00:49:11] That's so so important.
[00:49:12] So I love that.
[00:49:13] Yeah. And it seems like when
[00:49:14] you're sick, it's the first
[00:49:15] thing that goes out the door
[00:49:16] and so bringing that back and
[00:49:18] noticing that, yeah, you can
[00:49:19] be with uncomfortable feelings,
[00:49:21] sensations, emotions, and
[00:49:23] you can also smile at
[00:49:25] something that's precious, you
[00:49:27] know. Exactly.
[00:49:28] Yeah. Okay, Ellen, again,
[00:49:30] thank you so much for
[00:49:31] sharing your story.
[00:49:32] It's very powerful.
[00:49:33] And I know I know this will be
[00:49:35] a good one that people will
[00:49:36] learn from. So appreciate it.
[00:49:37] Thank you. And look, I always
[00:49:39] like, oh, I hope our paths
[00:49:40] cross again and they did.
[00:49:42] So I'm so grateful for you
[00:49:45] too, for having me on today
[00:49:46] and for your work that you
[00:49:47] do. And you're hilarious.
[00:49:48] Your content is just so
[00:49:50] authentic and real. And I
[00:49:51] love it. So I keep telling
[00:49:52] everyone to go to a heal
[00:49:54] with grace because I don't
[00:49:56] know, even days where I was
[00:49:57] just like, and I go and I'd
[00:49:58] see your things. And I
[00:49:59] go, oh my gosh, she is
[00:50:01] just doing it. And you're
[00:50:02] being so real about, you know,
[00:50:04] the whole process of this.
[00:50:05] So thank you.
[00:50:07] Well, I appreciate you saying
[00:50:08] that. So yeah, well, I know
[00:50:11] we will talk soon. And for all
[00:50:12] of my listeners, I will talk
[00:50:13] with you next week.
[00:50:15] If this podcast means
[00:50:16] something to you, it would
[00:50:17] mean so much to me if you
[00:50:19] could do these couple things.
[00:50:20] One, go to the heal with
[00:50:21] grace show page wherever you
[00:50:23] listen and tap the plus
[00:50:24] sign or click on the follow
[00:50:26] button so you don't miss an
[00:50:27] episode. It helps both of us
[00:50:29] out. While you're there, if
[00:50:30] you could give a five star
[00:50:32] review so that this podcast
[00:50:34] can reach more people, it
[00:50:35] would mean so much to me. So
[00:50:37] I can continue sharing
[00:50:38] episodes that help you as
[00:50:40] well as others. Thanks for
[00:50:41] listening. And I hope this
[00:50:42] brings you hope on your
[00:50:43] journey.